Rubber in South and central America

[alation13]

I have noticed that there is VERY little to no rubber in South and Central American regions. Since that is where the plant is native to and was first discovered I would assume that the potential supplies should be rather high. It is even worse in the 2020 sandboxes where there is NONE in those regions. I understand that this could be a slight oversight, but that is like forgetting to put oil in the middle east.

[Chris-BattleGoat]

While discovered there, the total capacity for rubber was never substantial and has actually declined over the years with the rise of synthetic alternatives. Other areas such as the Hainan province of China have actively cultivated rubber plants to increase capacity.

If you think there are errors in this, please provide supporting evidence.

[alation13]

Since you can develop industries in the game, to me it is much more important to have the "natural" capability rather than the actual amount produced. Since you can build structures like power plants and industry goods production facilities I would assume that rubber would be the same. Otherwise these structures should also be limited to what is available "in the real would".

Talking about synthetic alternatives, when I started a SW2020 game as any of the american states, they have no idea how to build a synthetic rubber plant, so that is not really following "real world" trends and technologies.

Thankyou for the quick reply though.

[alation13]

I just did a very quick search on the internet for supporting evidence as you asked.

http://www.factfish.com/statistic/natural+rubber,+production+quantity

There you go, your ratios based on country are way out.
There should be 3-4 times more "deposits" of rubber each in Indonesia and Thailand than in Malaysia, while ingame Malaysia has about 10 times the volume of either of those countries.

[Chris-BattleGoat]

Thanks for the link. You misinterpreted it however, that's actual capacity (output of the region) not potential capacity. If Malaysia is using only a fraction of it's potential, the resources could still be correct. Not to mention, the game takes place 6 years from now, it can't actually be wrong, only unrealistic. But we'd like to avoid as much unrealistic as we can.

I'll use that to review the output values.

I thought I had fixed the individual states knowing Synth Rubber but I'll take another look.
[Edit: hmm, yeah, still missing. Thanks.]
20729, 20730

[alation13]

That is what I am trying to say "potential capacity" is the important thing. Like untapped oil reserves. Since the South American climate, soil, weather etc are ideal for the plants required for a rubber plantation (the plant is native to the region and evolved there). So there should be greater deposits there, not none at all.

[Chris-BattleGoat]

<That is what I am trying to say "potential capacity" is the important thing. Like untapped oil reserves.>
We are in agreement. Do you have data on potential capacity? What you provided is data on actual installed capacity.

While the weather may be ideal, what information I could gather showed that there is insufficient rubber growing there now to cultivate natural rubber at the levels output by one of our facilities.

I don't mind being wrong, it can be changed in an update, but I need some data to work from, ideally a map. South America is a big place.

[alation13]

I give up,
Last I knew trees could be planted and grown as long as the climate and soil conditions were suitable to grow them. Since the rubber tree that is used for comercial plantations EVOLVED in that region and had to be imported to the other regions that is reason enough that it CAN EASILY be grown there.

It is currently mainly grown in SE Asia because that is where the market is biggest. Once oil prices rise and it is not as viable to produce rubber from oil, what is to say that the emerging economies of other countries will not produce it. I thought that was the whole pretext of the SW2020 sandbox.

I am a qualified ecologist/conservation biologist, so understand the reasons for SE Asia producing more rubber currently are purely for economic reasons not biological reasons.

As far as I can see you are contridicting yourself, one post says you want current capacities not potential, and another says you want potential not current capacities.

[Chris-BattleGoat]

Sorry that we're having a hard time understanding each other,

< that is reason enough that it CAN EASILY be grown there. >
Then by this standard I would be making every hex have Rubber potential making that specialty fairly meaningless.

I just don't understand where within South/Central America you're suggesting we create the rubber potential.

[Guerilla-Gorilla]

i also thought there should be a bit more rubber in the amazonas region,
i have a map where you can see, that brazil is producing rubber between Cuiaba and Porto dos Gauchos, taht doesnt mean taht they have resources there!

[Mystic Referee]

There is a fungus that is native in south america which will kill the plant. Similar to, basically, the Banana Blight which killed all of the Gros Michel in South America. Which, is what most banana flavored candies are actually flavored as, not the banana we know.

But doing a copy pasta from rainforest-alliance.org:

Hevea brasiliensis is a species of rubberwood that is native to rainforests in the Amazon region of South America, including Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Peru and Bolivia. These trees are generally found in low-altitude moist forests, wetlands, riparian zones, forest gaps and disturbed areas.

Heavily forested areas are difficult for the tree to grow in.

In terms of a general map, this is all I can find in regards to the "Sweet Spot" of climate that the Rubber plant can grow:
http://botanycentral.providence.wikispaces.net/Rubber+Tree

[Chris-BattleGoat]

Nice map, thanks, but I don't think making all areas in that band have Rubber as a natural exploitable resource.

<i have a map where you can see, that brazil is producing rubber between Cuiaba and Porto dos Gauchos>

Any chance you can post it or email it to me?

[e-mail]

[alation13]

Originally posted by Sassy Liquor:

There is a fungus that is native in south america which will kill the plant. Similar to, basically, the Banana Blight which killed all of the Gros Michel in South America. Which, is what most banana flavored candies are actually flavored as, not the banana we know.

But doing a copy pasta from rainforest-alliance.org:

Hevea brasiliensis is a species of rubberwood that is native to rainforests in the Amazon region of South America, including Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Peru and Bolivia. These trees are generally found in low-altitude moist forests, wetlands, riparian zones, forest gaps and disturbed areas.

Heavily forested areas are difficult for the tree to grow in.

In terms of a general map, this is all I can find in regards to the "Sweet Spot" of climate that the Rubber plant can grow:
http://botanycentral.providence.wikispaces.net/Rubber+Tree

Thankyou Sassy Liquor, my next step was to try and find a map like that since the dev didn't seem to understand about climatic regions for growing plants.

[Chris-BattleGoat]

I did understand. Are you suggesting that we put rubber resources in all red areas on his map?

[Mystic Referee]

What could probably be done is that areas that are near the rainforest areas, but don't have jungle, and which are also in the red zone, but at around lower altitudes could be potential cadidates for Rubber resources.

EDIT: But in lower concentrations then seen in South Asia because of the enviromental challeges brought on by the various fungus and such that are present in south america but not South Asia. Which I guess the production means can be argued because brazil went through some awefully dirty tactics to try and ensure a large rubber production. Not saying the plantations didn't either though.

[Chris-BattleGoat]

<potential cadidates for Rubber resources. >

Well, either I put the resource or I don't, that's what the engine supports.

<near the rainforest areas, but don't have jungle, and which are also in the red zone>
That's still a little vague and arbitrary...