We hear you guys about Tutorials and Explanations

[novruzj]

While the release date is getting closer, and there is a lot of work for us to be done, I'm changing the Book of Medicine to make it more clear and understandable. I have discussed it in our Discord channel, but wanted to share here as well.

These are four issues we have identified player's having trouble understanding:
- That the dosages do not stack
- That the medicine of the time and the game requires some Trial and Error
- That intervals in the Physical Symptoms book give a hint on what the answer can be, not that all three doses are the answer
- And finally on what to do when a patient has an allergy

Here are the changes of the book, let me know what you think!

Four Humors and Medication page:

"Remedies come in two categories. Precision medicine uses a distinct dose (1–9) for each humor—Blood, Phlegm, Yellow Bile, and Black Bile. Crucially these doses do not stack: a dose of “3” for Blood doesn’t combine with another “4” to make “7.” Each stands alone.

Alternative medicine simply indicates which humors (Vital or Digestive) need treatment and whether a Low (1–5) or High (6–9) dose is required, without pinpointing exact values."

Humor Wheel page:

"In the uncertain art of healing, doctors sometimes resort to careful trial and error—especially when patients have no awareness of their ailments and offer no clues for a cure. Doctors find the best results by closely observing the effects of medications on their patients. The closer the dosage to the ideal, the better the outcome—finding the exact dosage always leads to Full Recovery, while the exact opposite results in Death. All other dosages influence the patient’s condition incrementally, based on how far they stray from the ideal treatment."

Physical Symptoms page:

"Physical symptoms can appear anywhere on a patient’s body—sometimes requiring the patient to be undressed for a thorough examination. These signs narrow the possible dose to an interval, yet only one precise value within that range leads to Full Recovery. Remember that doses don’t stack.

If no physical symptoms are present, administering Low (1–5) or High (6–9) medicine can still offer clues."

Allergies page:

"If a patient is allergic to the humor and dosage that would cure them, the doctor must consult the Humor Wheel to find the closest safe dose. While it may not yield a Full Recovery, it avoids triggering an allergic reaction and still improves the patient’s condition."

I'll push these changes probably tomorrow - but I wanted to share it with you first!

[novruzj]

I'll also be looking into the text of tutorials next.

[Pixel Brick]

I found a big problem I was having with the humor wheel was narrowing it down to the correct humor and the wheel said 100% X humor, but then when administered it killed them with no explanation.

Reading your changes I would also be confused on the allergy humor wheel. 1 it is one of the last things you get in the demo so it wouldn't help prior, but also is the implication you would give 1 dose of it than try to spin the wheel to find out. In general it feels like the wheel is more of a guessing game and even when there is a clear outcome it doesn't work without any clear reason.

The last problem I had in relation to tutorials is the anomalies being able to appear in the side window. Since I had no reason to believe that that area was able to have anomalies (and the book being a complete screen with little background made me specifically think those were safe areas) I ended up making the totem angry because "there was an eye in the window" which was confusing since I checked the window by the door, but there was nothing there. I think a noticeable sound could mitigate this for the early game but maybe have the totem say something like "Didn't think you'd see that sneaky one. Lucky it knocked something outside over. Next time they may not be so loud".

[IsaWP]

Wow, I was suspecting the medicine might not be cumulative, since some of my results didn't make sense if I assumed it was, but because of the constant time pressure I could never take the time to make notes and think about it.

[Koby]

Originally posted by IsaWP:

Wow, I was suspecting the medicine might not be cumulative, since some of my results didn't make sense if I assumed it was, but because of the constant time pressure I could never take the time to make notes and think about it.

Yeah it's a tricky one. As the meds don't stack, but you have a limited amount of each med to use per day.
You want a +3 outcome to instantly recover someone, but +1 is a small result and +2 is good (two of those usually leads to full recovery).
If you are having to give high dosages, then getting anything less than a +2/+3 result can lead to running out of meds.

Then you have to juggle, do you fully recover them for more money etc. or just make them better and send them off (which you can do early or after max amount of dosages applied) for saving time at the cost of money and rep received.

It depends on how hard money income will be and how important/difficult rep will be.

[Arcanum]

Originally posted by Pixel Brick:

I found a big problem I was having with the humor wheel was narrowing it down to the correct humor and the wheel said 100% X humor, but then when administered it killed them with no explanation.

Reading your changes I would also be confused on the allergy humor wheel. 1 it is one of the last things you get in the demo so it wouldn't help prior, but also is the implication you would give 1 dose of it than try to spin the wheel to find out. In general it feels like the wheel is more of a guessing game and even when there is a clear outcome it doesn't work without any clear reason.

I've run into something like this twice, once with the humour wheel, once with the alternative medicine deduction. Treatment should be X, administer X, patient dies for no obvious reason.

The last problem I had in relation to tutorials is the anomalies being able to appear in the side window. Since I had no reason to believe that that area was able to have anomalies (and the book being a complete screen with little background made me specifically think those were safe areas) I ended up making the totem angry because "there was an eye in the window" which was confusing since I checked the window by the door, but there was nothing there.

I didn't realize there was a side window until this comment.

[Pink Shades]

Glad to hear things are moving towards being more clear at least. Still not in love with how dosages work at all, but can imagine it's already too deep to reconsider anything. Best of luck.

[Corgipillar]

those changes are great. i think they definitely clarify things while still expecting you to think about the answers. i dont want it just handed to me. i had most of these same problems but by the end f the demo I had figured it out.... mostly.
tabs for the book would be great for quick navigation, if thats possible. moving between screens and then having to flip flip flip takes a lot of time.
i like the branching alliances aspect. looking forward to the full game!

[GavinGWhiz]

I guess the big question that remains is... why do the dosages not stack? The whole POINT of the four humors belief of medicine was the idea of balancing them. Whanging 20 black bile into a patient because I'm giving them one dosage less than what the game thinks I should give them per injection would be CRAZY to someone using the four humors as a system.

You've designed a mechanic that both doesn't really track in a modern medical context, AND it punishes your core demographic for knowing about a thing your game is based around! In fact, someone in your core demographic who knows about old medicine/horror is at a disadvantage because your current "dosages don't stack" system means the possibility of poisoning a patient/imbalancing their humors, at least in early days, is non-existent.

[Countdown]

Dosages not stacking is bonkers. The game has great vibes, but that decision is going to mess up a ton of players. Dosages stack (and compound) in real life, they need to stack to make sense.

[IsaWP]

However, if they stack it's just a matter of adding 1-2 doses every time, and when you overshoot there's no way to fix. Unless you'd be able to balance it out with the opposite humour.
But the setting is certainly odd enough that I can buy that the medicine works in a way that real life medicine doesn't. In real life humour theory doesn't work - because it doesn't just take balancing 4 of anything to have a functioning healthy human being. Even the humblest worm, mouse or beetle are far more complex than that.

[TheArcadean]

Originally posted by IsaWP:

However, if they stack it's just a matter of adding 1-2 doses every time, and when you overshoot there's no way to fix.

Overshooting fix is easy - just add a "purgative" vial that purges all currently-applied meds. Gives another gold sink, something else to balance, and means that a run isn't ruined because of a miss-click.

I'll add my voice to the others here saying that meds not stacking is pretty nuts. Combined with the guesswork (which is already slightly annoying) it just results in players wasting meds because they're not psychic which isn't a very rewarding mechanic. Negative outcomes (that are CORE MECHANICS of the game) should be the result of players making a mistake, not because they guessed wrong multiple times in a row.

At that point you might as well just make us do single doses and roll a shrinking die to see if it works.

[Aerialbabe]

I'm stuck on day 5 because a lot of the patients have allergies to the medicine that would cure them. I try to use the wheel and other doo-dad, but those suggestions always kill the patient as well. It's frustrating because it feels like my only options are to kill those patients or send them away without treating them at all.

[CallMeAce]

Originally posted by Aerialbabe:

I'm stuck on day 5 because a lot of the patients have allergies to the medicine that would cure them. I try to use the wheel and other doo-dad, but those suggestions always kill the patient as well. It's frustrating because it feels like my only options are to kill those patients or send them away without treating them at all.

It sounds to me like you didn't understand the wheel since allergies in the +3 on wheel means you give them something for +2 or +1, which would be a higher/lower dose of the right humor or a lower/higher dose of the neighbouring, both of which will never kill them.