Frigate & assault carrier ryder spam

[Bobo the angsty zebra]

With frigate I mean the 1900 hp guys who spawn ryders and bombers, that might not be a bad thing, but the fact that the units that carriers spawn can immdiatly move and f*ck you over is kinda stupid. And also why can the assault carier spam 2 pact supports? Its kinda not cool considering how often they use those f*cking flakdown abbilties -.- And on another note nerf pact supports pls such as there ridculious avoid.

there are still other that need to be nerferd or buffed, but im too lazy too continue typing

(oh spoilers union frigate's suck, dont use them)

[Caridor]

The only problem is my eyes is the limited sources of kinetic damage, which is the only thing worth a damage against big ships like carriers.

I got to be honest, I turned it down to visual novel mode after a while. I just wasn't interested in the combat, the meat of this game is in the story, the pressures of command, the cost of war etc.

[Epic The Incandescent]

I dont mind the supports current abilitys EXCEPT FOR ITS ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥ UP DISABLE LITE I hate this ability and I hate that it has a lingering effect and I REALLY hate how the damn game spams them like a mad man. if the devs dont do it I will go into the code and write myself a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard limit on howmay supports those ♥♥♥♥♥ can field at any given time

[neogoterra]

The bit I find really funny is how they had to buff flak before to make missiles less op then they put in a enemy that can shut down ALL your flak at once making it so if you dont kill every support ryder in the first turn they will grimp your whole fleet and your be instagibed by missile/rocket spam.

I had to turn down the game the VN mode as well the combat just got tiring with how its always the same, turtle up hope your flak holds back the missile spam and slowly creep to the other side of the map.
For a strategy style game there really isnt much in the way of strategy only praying to RNGesus that the enemy wont spam flak down/disable on your whole fleet.

[Impoxdragon]

All I got were bomber spawns my first two runs...
Reminds me of the beach scene with Icari about rockets and armour. It's so true.

[Sir Fluffykins]

neogoterra eredeti hozzászólása:

The bit I find really funny is how they had to buff flak before to make missiles less op then they put in a enemy that can shut down ALL your flak at once making it so if you dont kill every support ryder in the first turn they will grimp your whole fleet and your be instagibed by missile/rocket spam.

I had to turn down the game the VN mode as well the combat just got tiring with how its always the same, turtle up hope your flak holds back the missile spam and slowly creep to the other side of the map.
For a strategy style game there really isnt much in the way of strategy only praying to RNGesus that the enemy wont spam flak down/disable on your whole fleet.

But then the carriers just spawn new supports which can work the turn they're made and do that anyway XD

[neogoterra]

Sir Fluffykins eredeti hozzászólása:

But then the carriers just spawn new supports which can work the turn they're made and do that anyway XD

yup so you die on round two if you dont manage to kill all missile and rocket boats as well only for more to spawn in outside of your attack range where as your well within theres.

The gameplay needs a HUGE overhaul with how it currently works, the simplest fixe I can think of for the ryders is to make the enemy support ryders flakoff reduce flak not out right stop it, and to reduce their total energy, I've had a single ryder spam two repairs and then flakoff. THATS NOT BROKENLY OP AT ALL!! [sarcastic]

[Suguri]

Those support units can get pretty annoying, I agree. Although a strategy, as well as an exploitation of the AI is that you can use some of the debuff abilities such as Aim Down on some of the enemy's ships.

I noticed that this will prompt some of those supports to use a restore ability on them, thus wasting some of their turn's actions. To do this, you might want to upgrade the energy for the ryders that can put some debuffs however.

Also Union Frigates are actually pretty good, they can take down a few ryders, and using all 4 of them can help in taking down battleships, or even carriers. They can even practically destroy a single cruiser if you focus all of their lasers on one after taking down its shields which they can also do.

Other than that though, this game can get pretty challenging, I've had to outright restart entire missions simply because I had to approach and place my units differently. It's all in good fun however.

[jrlennis]

At issue is the fact that the enemy always outnumbers you. In normal weapon exchanges this can be overcome with smart positioning - and to a lesser extent, upgrades - but with debuffers it's a whole different ballgame. Debuff abilities always hit, have unlimited range, and can't be defended against. This puts you solidly at the enemy's mercy, forcing you to charge the lines recklessly to stop the debuffers, especially if there's more than one. Now, I don't oppose the concept of taking risks to get rid of "that one annoying enemy". That has been a staple of the strategy genre from its inception. The problem here is that the risks are unmanageable considering the extreme numbers of hard-hitting enemies between you and the debuffers, but charging is the only viable option since Chigara can only disable one rider per turn - plus failing to destroy the carriers quickly will always spawn more debuffers to harass you. (debuffers that can attack on the same turn they're launched, annoyingly)

So now we have a situation where your only healer, Chigara, is forced to disable people instead of supporting the Sunrider - which inevitably attracts all the enemy fire from trying to bring down the carriers with Vanguard blasts (it's only viable method of moving quickly and dealing big damage on the same turn), upon which using that ability blocks you from using a repair drones order if you need it. Complicating matters further is Kriska's inability to give meaningful offensive support due to her extremely high movement cost, putting the Sunrider in even greater danger from aggro. The carriers can spawn several waves of riders before she even becomes a factor on that side of the map. And Sola is of little help since she has only one attack per round and has to use Awaken to make it count.

What I'm trying to say in this longish post is that the entire debuffing system is broken from a game-design standpoint. Even in the player's hands, the abilities are overpowered due to their unlimited range. It wasn't until I started playing Mask of Arcadius that I realized just how OP it is and how much I had come to rely on it in First Arrival. Short of drastically lowering the difficulty setting, it is game-breaking when it's used against you by a numerically superior enemy. My solution to this issue is simple. Nerf the range of debuffs, both for you and the enemy. That alone will fix all of the subsequent issues I described for the escort mission, changing the prospects of success from impossible to reasonably challenging. This to me is completely fair. If you want to gain a major advantage by neutralizing flak for a missile/rocket barrage, you have to put your debuffer at some degree of risk - say at effective laser range. There is no other strategy game I can think of that doesn't limit "spellcasters" in this way. Why must Sunrider violate this time-tested rule? It doesn't work as is.

[Vaendryl]

The game is very challenging, and that's not for everyone. that's why you can now tailor the difficulty to precisely what you're comfortable with. that said, even hard is possible if you play well enough.

it seems to me that those who can't deal with enemy Support are underestimating how important it is to deal with them first and foremost - and underestimating how useful Sola is in dealing with them.

the Seraphim can be made extremely powerful with upgrades, as she scales very well with them. she's very specialized. she's also your primary and best bet against enemy support, especially if you upgrade her to have 2 shots per round. the enemy usually doesn't start with more than 2 support, and if you take them down as they spawn they're not that much of a threat. also, you should consider disabling them yourself with Chigara - or the assault carrier that spawns them.

It's true that newly spawned enemy support units can still act the same turn, but they'll act dead last and the rest of the enemies won't be able to take advantage of their curses.

the small frigates may not seem very good, but you can have 4 of them and their combined ability to jam shielding can be useful in lasering down enemy support units too.

[Arcane Azmadi]

I concur. When you're outnumbered, having multiple enemy units who can do the same thing as Chigara can is simply unreasonable, especialy when they hang out at the back of the enemy formation. The AI is hard-coded to always focus down your most vulnerable target first and to always fire their rockets and missiles if they have any, and when your flak is being disabled across your entire fleet there's effectively NO way for you to make it through the enemy turn without losing at least 1 or 2 units, which only makes it even harder. I have to question whether the developers actually playtested these battles before they released the update, because they're worlds harder than anything that came before them- and not in a "you need to be more skilled to win" way, but in a "this is totally unreasonable, the only way to win is to find the right exploit" way.

[Epic The Incandescent]

mmmm you guys should limite the nuymber of ryders enemy assault carriers can spew to 2 support 2 heavy bombers 1 of those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ scary side cannon things and 4 of the weak frontlines men, slightly more then us but still a challange. That or include a mechanic to allow us to deal AOE damage from long range, mabey a new type of missile or cannon type since the ending clearly points to a need for serious weapon upgrades. Hell adding a CP "support drone" power that provides a buff imunity field= to the sunriders shields would be pretty damn cool to. If yall MUST hve your infinite stock of ryder rockin carriers please at the very least keep the global number of support craft to something like 8 give or take a few. 8 disable lites is not cool man specially when a good chunk "difficulty" comes from getting range to overcome the rng hit ratios.

[Arcane Azmadi]

I should also point out that enemy support ryders cheat because their abilities don't work the same way yours do. When they use Disable Lite on your units, they only lose 50% of their power rather than 100%, but that's still enough to pretty much disable them (Sola, for example, can NEVER fire under those conditions unless you've jacked up her energy and reduced her shot cost something INSANE). What's worse is that this lasts for TWO turns, not one- the turn after they use it on you and the turn in which your unit "Recovers from Disable Lite"- where, despite "recovering", they still don't have their full energy for that turn. With enough enemy supports disabling your units every turn, eventually your entire fleet will be crippled permanently. And since supportr ryders never move from their starting positions (AND have insanely high evade) they're almost impossible to take out unless you go completely balls-deep on the enemy.

I'm serious, support ryders completely RUIN the game balance. You need to fix them pronto because they're simply UNFUN to have to deal with.

[Sir Tapkomet of Canterlot]

Dunno, I didn't have that much of a problem, playing on Captain. Sola usually works well, and I can take fire while debuffed for a turn or so. Then again, after XCOM even getting completely screwed over all the time doesn't seem that challenging =)

[Vaendryl]

yes, if you let it get so bad that the enemy has 8 support ryders on the field then you f'd up and you're pretty damn screwed. don't let it get that bad lol.
Sola and Icari are great support unit hunters - and disable assault carriers if you can. torpedo carriers when possible together with flakoff if you can get away with it.
doing damage before the AI gets to build up is key.

[neogoterra]

the problem with Icari is that she has such poor armor unless you get her evade well over mk10 upgrades she will just be focused fired down once she trys to break though the enemy lines to the back where the support ryders like to hang out. Its the same for any unit still leave the flak/shield turtle formation and the unit gets killed in one turn if there are more then a handful of enemys.