Battle Editor improvements

[Koshkinets]

Yeah, we need to talk about that old horse again. I was aware the unit selection was restricted based on available documentation about authorised formations, but I had no idea how limited it was before I really had a look at it. I expected there would be some missing tanks from the early war here and there, but the USSR doesn't even get infantry until 1943! It's impossible to make a scenario set earlier than this, you simply have nothing to work with.

So what can be done about this? I see 2 options to begin with: The first is letting us make a custom platoon in a similar manner to the quick battle (aka Come Into Battle) setup, so we can put something together with any squads from the appropriate time period. The devs have previously expressed they don't really want to do this.

So the second option: Import formations that appear in the main game's operations for use in the battle editor. If they're good enough for the actual game then they must be realistic enough to use here too. It would instantly fill in all the gaps of missing troops and vehicles from every time period and require less clicking to set up battles than a platoon editor would, so I kind of prefer this approach.

The battle editor is the most customisable part of the game, a lot of potential for unique missions and cinematics, but it's really been handicapped by the unit selection to the point of being almost useless. I'll gloss over the complete lack of documentation for how to use the thing as well, since it isn't too difficult to figure out by yourself, but that's another thing that discourages its use.

Couple minor things while I'm here: Is there a way to get trucks in it? You can edit a platoon's properties and set their reinforcement attachments, but transport is conspicuously absent from the list. I wanted some tanks driving down a road followed by trucks full of infantry, but the closest I could get was motorised supply troops attached to the tank platoon. 3 tanks and 1 truck (with 3 guys already in it) was not enough to carry a whole platoon of riflemen.
I also noticed in the scenario settings more options for weather and unit camouflage, could we get these for Come Into Battle mode too? For some reason there's only rain or fog there, while the battle editor has access to snow, blizzard, storm, etc.

Thanks for all the great work so far

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

So the second option: Import formations that appear in the main game's operations for use in the battle editor. If they're good enough for the actual game then they must be realistic enough to use here too.

If we leave technical issues aside, this gives a lot of duplicate and garbage platoons.

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

It would instantly fill in all the gaps of missing troops and vehicles from every time period and require less clicking to set up battles than a platoon editor would, so I kind of prefer this approach.

On the contrary, due to the huge number of duplicates, you will click a lot looking for the one you want.

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

I'll gloss over the complete lack of documentation for how to use the thing as well, since it isn't too difficult to figure out by yourself, but that's another thing that discourages its use.

What does the lack of documentation mean?
The very first tutorial mission tells you how to use the editor.

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

Couple minor things while I'm here: Is there a way to get trucks in it?

As in any other case, choose a mobility strategy and get the right amount of trucks.

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

You can edit a platoon's properties and set their reinforcement attachments, but transport is conspicuously absent from the list.

Transport is where it should be.

[Koshkinets]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

If we leave technical issues aside, this gives a lot of duplicate and garbage platoons.

On the contrary, due to the huge number of duplicates, you will click a lot looking for the one you want.

It can't be that complicated to filter out duplicate entries, can it? And to further avoid an enormous list (since there are a lot of operations to choose from) importing these formations could be an optional feature to supplement the available selection, rather than having them all there by default. Some screen to choose what operation you want to import a platoon from, and so on.

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

What does the lack of documentation mean?
The very first tutorial mission tells you how to use the editor.

My mistake, but I was thinking of an entry in the manual rather than a tutorial section.

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

As in any other case, choose a mobility strategy and get the right amount of trucks.

Transport is where it should be.

Is it only on certain platoons or something? I tried several different ones from the 1943 USSR list, cycled through all their attachment options and none had transport.

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

It can't be that complicated to filter out duplicate entries, can it?

If they were repeated identically, then yes. But strictly speaking, they could differ slightly, for example, the specific modification of equipment or the number of machine guns and such platoons will be the overwhelming majority.

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

And to further avoid an enormous list (since there are a lot of operations to choose from) importing these formations could be an optional feature to supplement the available selection, rather than having them all there by default. Some screen to choose what operation you want to import a platoon from, and so on.

What `s next?
And if 90% do not import and continue to complain about the absence. It definitely shouldn't be that strange.

[Vit.Politruk]

I will only say that the developers have recently stopped adding technology to the Big Editor coming with DLC, thereby depriving them of building their own battles and scenarios with the help of it .. The editor simply stops living and developing .. very disappointing

[Koshkinets]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

What `s next?
And if 90% do not import and continue to complain about the absence. It definitely shouldn't be that strange.

I don't understand what you mean here, sorry.

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

What `s next?
And if 90% do not import and continue to complain about the absence. It definitely shouldn't be that strange.

I don't understand what you mean here, sorry.

If something does not appear in the game by itself, then 90% (or maybe 99%) of the players will not find it and will not use it. Doing some kind of feature so that it is not immediately available in the game is an extremely dubious decision.

[Koshkinets]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

If something does not appear in the game by itself, then 90% (or maybe 99%) of the players will not find it and will not use it. Doing some kind of feature so that it is not immediately available in the game is an extremely dubious decision.

Why wouldn't anyone find it? I don't know if you're picturing some kind of external tool, but I'm imagining a button on the unit selection screen like "Import platoon from operation" or something like that. Hard to miss and easy to understand.
I'm sure you'd find some way of making it work, but the main point is just to have the option. Even if some people miss it, when they come here and ask where all the missing units in the battle editor are, would it be better if you told them "you can get them from here" or "you just can't use them"?

[Flan]

You can make pre 43 infantry by putting down a '43 unit and then setting the time back to an earlier date, they even seem to draw from different gear tables depending on the year instead of just the unit.
The missing tanks is still a issue that would be nice to be solved one day.

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

Why wouldn't anyone find it?

I have no idea why this is happening. But there is a real fact - many players do not find the BIG button! in the MAIN menu! in order to get into Close Engagement mode. To find a button for importing something somewhere in the depths of the editor ... there is no certainty that more than 1-2 people will find it.

[Koshkinets]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

Why wouldn't anyone find it?

I have no idea why this is happening. But there is a real fact - many players do not find the BIG button! in the MAIN menu! in order to get into Close Engagement mode. To find a button for importing something somewhere in the depths of the editor ... there is no certainty that more than 1-2 people will find it.

You mean the unlabeled picture of a tank in the bottom corner that's inconsistent with the rest of the menu and located in the place the eye is least likely to travel to? I wouldn't blame the players for missing that one.

[WhipMyWombat]

i just wish the editor was more like operation star where you could pick individual units

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by WhipMyWombat:

i just wish the editor was more like operation star where you could pick individual units

Such an editor has been in the game for more than a year. You can choose individual units however you like.

[archibaldthe1]

Speaking of that individual units editor - it's great for sure, and I use it to try out/test particular units. It would be cool if we were able to select the enemy's units too. The mode where enemy units are selected automatically is fine (and in most cases you may not want to bother and spend time selecting), but for the sake of battling particular units against one another, the ability to pick for the enemy would be useful .

[Vit.Politruk]

Yes, they are too lazy to just do it all

[archibaldthe1]

New formations were added in beta - looks like those who were asking for BT tanks in battle editors will finally get them.