Why the Olifant weren't use in Operation Modular

[Mum]

It says in the Historical background that for same unfathomable reason they were not mobilised, well according to Kobus Smit, the commander of 61 Mech, "E Squadron (the tank squadron) did not participate in Operation Modular as it was moth-balled and not manned". Wow, I wasn't expecting that they were moth-balled. There is much more to the article about the whole battle, he says contact was made at 10h47 where as in game it says 8.00-9.00 so who knows, but I just wanted to state the reason about the Tanks according to Smit. Also they only lost one Ratel 90, God was with them, because I'm losing mine left right and centre. Tricky campaign in that regard trying to live up to that expectation.

http://www.61mech.org.za/operations/operation-modular

[Gunnerr]

Yes, we won't get Olifant for Operation Moduler. One reason is that, even the name of the dlc is Operation Moduler. The dlc engagement dated 3rd October, during this period and location no Olifant tank were invovled.

So where are they? Well the devs already released a dlc called "Day of the Olifant", this is a continuation of Operation Moduler. If I'm not wrong, 2 enemy tanks destroyed by 2 different Olifant tanks at Chambinga river.

Moduler lasted from early Oct until end of November.

So far, I know a reason why Olifant did not take part in the early stage of Moduler according to Evert Jordaan:

"Botha asked with much exasperation why the Olifant tanks (which had cost so much money to upgrade) were not committed. It appears that the SADF did not expect that tanks would ever be authorised for employment given the nature of the diplomatic restrictions the SADF
forces were already submitted to, in order to prevent conflict escalation. While the
preparation of a tank squadron had been authorised earlier by the Chief of the
Army, Lt. Gen. Kat Liebenberg, Botha's argument gave impetus for the offensive
use of the Olifant tanks north of the Lomba River in Angola"

[Waterdotz]

Day of the olifant also covers operation moduler and has olifants

[andrey12345 v2.0]

This topic discusses all events in detail (from #22)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/312980/discussions/0/1778262124936729152/

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by JESUS IS LORD:

he says contact was made at 10h47 where as in game it says 8.00-9.00 so who knows

Perhaps the time is from different time zones (I do not know how it is accepted there). Perhaps this means - in fact, when it was and when the message arrived at the headquarters, there could be many reasons.

[Mum]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

Originally posted by JESUS IS LORD:

he says contact was made at 10h47 where as in game it says 8.00-9.00 so who knows

Perhaps the time is from different time zones (I do not know how it is accepted there). Perhaps this means - in fact, when it was and when the message arrived at the headquarters, there could be many reasons.

Well the more I read it, it seems contact for them might mean something else compared to how someone else might classify contact. Because thereafter it says, "We made contact at 10h17 and 47 Brigade’s tanks were engaged by the Charlie squadron’s Ratel 90’s". So they might have been skirmishing like they were since September in the early morning, then made Tank contact at 10h17 and then made maybe battalion level contact at 10h47 or something like that? 10h or 9h, not much of difference anyway. I was more interested in why the Tanks weren't there in Operation Modular and maybe it was for good reason too because in Operation Hooper it says "We were destroying their tanks at only 10 to 30 m range while many infantrymen were being killed on the ground with machine-gun fire. About 25 minutes into the battle we had advanced only 400 m into the bush but had shot out seven of their tanks; four were burning like hell and exploding all the time for an hour or two. That made things very difficult for our infantrymen on the ground, so they were having to take cover or get back into the Ratels."

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by JESUS IS LORD:

I was more interested in why the Tanks weren't there in Operation Modular and maybe it was for good reason too because in Operation Hooper it says "We were destroying their tanks at only 10 to 30 m range while many infantrymen were being killed on the ground with machine-gun fire. About 25 minutes into the battle we had advanced only 400 m into the bush but had shot out seven of their tanks; four were burning like hell and exploding all the time for an hour or two. That made things very difficult for our infantrymen on the ground, so they were having to take cover or get back into the Ratels."

For economic reasons, most likely. Tanks are hard and expensive deliver to the battlefield, and maintenance is also expensive. The existing tanks had no particular advantages over the Ratels-90.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/312980/discussions/0/1778262124936729152/?ctp=2#c1637543304840743499

[Mum]

I guess the word "unfathomable reason" gave me hopes of some crazy unknown secret, like the tanks were engaged in some spec ops mission, but it was always the most obvious answer lol. You also have to consider the people who drive those maintenance trucks too. "Our replacement power packs (engines, plus the attached automatic transmission) for the Olifants had to be brought in on transporters all the way from Rundu for hundreds of kilometres by night through the bush. By the time they reached us most of the power pack units were badly damaged. Sometimes the units had fallen through the floor of the transport because of the bad terrain and the poor driving. The control was poor. There were no senior officers with some of the convoys. They young blokes just got in and drove like they were in stock cars. It needed old heads to remind them all the time to slow down, and to jump on them if they took no notice.”

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by JESUS IS LORD:

I guess the word "unfathomable reason" gave me hopes of some crazy unknown secret

there is simply no official/semi-official source which would answer "why?"

[Gunnerr]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

Originally posted by JESUS IS LORD:

I guess the word "unfathomable reason" gave me hopes of some crazy unknown secret

there is simply no official/semi-official source which would answer "why?"

David Mannall served in Charlie Squadron, in his book The Day a South African Armoured Battalion shattered Angola's Last Mechanized Offensive said

"Ashton’s Squadron of Olifant tanks had briefly crossed the border into Angola
with 61 Mech, travelling only a short distance (obviously denied by authorities)
as a show of force but, it seemed, no significant threat had emerged and had
stood down"

Later he said something about diplomatic issue, where using full force might cause trouble.

Well you are not wrong, as my information is from a combatant at Lomba river battle. Not from the official/government. I mean, as you can see, Smit himself won't describe in details.

Originally posted by JESUS IS LORD:

for hundreds of kilometres by night through the bush.

That's interesting. David said something about satellite reconnaissance able to spot Olifants during daylight. His description stop here.

Sattelite from which country? I don't know.

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by -=LOL=-Gunner:

David Mannall served in Charlie Squadron, in his book The Day a South African Armoured Battalion shattered Angola's Last Mechanized Offensive said

"Ashton’s Squadron of Olifant tanks had briefly crossed the border into Angola
with 61 Mech, travelling only a short distance (obviously denied by authorities)
as a show of force but, it seemed, no significant threat had emerged and had
stood down"

Later he said something about diplomatic issue, where using full force might cause trouble.

Well you are not wrong, as my information is from a combatant at Lomba river battle. Not from the official/government. I mean, as you can see, Smit himself won't describe in details.

There are many such books, I have 3 of them on the table.
But these are all versions at the level of authenticity of "memoirs". Someone heard, someone was there as a soldier, etc.

There is no official report that can be interpreted as the level of an official document (combat log).

Originally posted by -=LOL=-Gunner:

That's interesting. David said something about satellite reconnaissance able to spot Olifants during daylight. His description stop here.

Sattelite from which country? I don't know.

Here is a choice from 1 option, a Soviet satellite for photographic intelligence .

But this is a strange explanation, since for many years Cuban pilots reported that they were blowing up South African tanks, and no distinction was made between the Ratel-90 and the tank, even by the Eland and the tank. All this was interpreted by the Soviet side as tanks, with appropriate statements and actions (let's bring even more T-55s to the Angolans).
The addition of Oliphant to this "tank set" would not change anything at all.

Economic expediency in the list of versions is the most reasonable and at least something is indirectly confirmed.