Stay Concealed or Prepare Ambush

[Scary Barry]

What is useful in which situation? I just discovered the "Prepare Ambush" function, but i have difficulty in differentiating it from the "Stay Concealed" function

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Scary Barry:

What is useful in which situation? I just discovered the "Prepare Ambush" function, but i have difficulty in differentiating it from the "Stay Concealed" function

Prepare Ambush - this is a function of the transition from the deployment mode to the battle, i.e. before the battle, soldiers will take up positions, such as in trenches or houses, near their location

Stay Concealed - it is a behavior modifier during a battle, that causes a soldier to lie down, crawl if moves, not peep out of the trench very often, etc. - i.e. behave as unnoticed as possible, which seems to be as the name implies.

[Scary Barry]

Ok, I'll rephrase the question: In the "Ambush" tutorial, the suggestion is that you should use "stay concealed" and "fire at will: off", until moment of engagement.

The "Defense" tutorial also seems to have no use for the "Prepare Ambush" feature, since the units are already dug in at the start.

So the ONLY use of "Prepare Ambush" is when you drop into a battle without having had time for the troops to dig in, but when there are houses and previously dug trenches around that you can use, correct?

[forth]

You may also notice troops may redeploy in more concealed areas (not just trenches and houses), such as forests, bushes or small gullies, rather than where you initially intended on placing them. So I guess it isn't the only use, but I would say the primary function of it is basically what it says - if clicked, they will find the best place to "stage" an ambush within a small radius of where they are placed - whether or not there are trenches or houses.

[Archipilot]

Checking "Prepare Ambush" at deployment is useful for ensuring that infantry squads actually do start in the trenches and/or buildings when put on those squares, rather than sunbathing. Note well: it should NOT be used if you particularly want a heavy weapon (say a 88mm Flak) to start in a particular place of your choosing, such as on a road. If you check "prepare ambush" in that case, it's likely to be deployed off to the side, facing the wrong way, and immobile due to piles of snow/fallen trees/dirty dishes/elven treasure.

[Toni]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

Stay Concealed - it is a behavior modifier during a battle, that causes a soldier to lie down, crawl if moves, not peep out of the trench very often, etc. - i.e. behave as unnoticed as possible, which seems to be as the name implies.

There is one thing I am still not entirely sure:

How does the "stay concealed modifier" affect the behavior of soldiers once a firefight has started? Will they shoot less often, "not peep out of the trench very often" to shoot etc.?

So, does it affect how aggressively they will (return) fire?

[CobaLT]

Originally posted by Toni:

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

Stay Concealed - it is a behavior modifier during a battle, that causes a soldier to lie down, crawl if moves, not peep out of the trench very often, etc. - i.e. behave as unnoticed as possible, which seems to be as the name implies.

There is one thing I am still not entirely sure:

How does the "stay concealed modifier" affect the behavior of soldiers once a firefight has started? Will they shoot less often, "not peep out of the trench very often" to shoot etc.?

So, does it affect how aggressively they will (return) fire?

I've noticed more sustained fire when releasing them from stay concealed.

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Scary Barry:

The "Defense" tutorial also seems to have no use for the "Prepare Ambush" feature, since the units are already dug in at the start.

Being in the trenches and concealed behavior do not depend on each other, these are various things.

Originally posted by Scary Barry:

So the ONLY use of "Prepare Ambush" is when you drop into a battle without having had time for the troops to dig in, but when there are houses and previously dug trenches around that you can use, correct?

Yes, this is the usual situation if you just arrived in the area and want to take up defense.

[Toni]

Originally posted by CobaLT:

I've noticed more sustained fire when releasing them from stay concealed.

I was not sure about that, thanks!

[forth]

Stay concealed often provides less visibility too, so approaching enemy is not spotted as easily - at least from my experience.

[Toni]

Originally posted by forth:

Stay concealed often provides less visibility too, so approaching enemy is not spotted as easily - at least from my experience.

That also seems clear to me: If, for example, the units are dug-in and on "stay concealed", they will "peep out of the trench" less often. LOS and spotting is simulated for every single soldier. So the probability of spotting an approaching enemy is reduced in this case. Same when they are in high grass...

[Toni]

Originally posted by Scary Barry:

What is useful in which situation? I just discovered the "Prepare Ambush" function, but i have difficulty in differentiating it from the "Stay Concealed" function

You might have seen this, but if not:

There is a "connection" between the "prepare ambush" option and the "stay concealed" modifier.

From the manual:

"Prepare ambush: When in concealment mode, soldiers will be positioned in any available cover, and if not - only in the specified direction (houses, trenches or shell holes)"

So if you want to "prepare ambush" in a specified direction do not enable the "stay concealed" modifier in deployment. If you need it you can enable it after deployment in the initial orders phase...

[Archipilot]

The other thing worth mentioning is that the "Stay Concealed" toggle slows down infantry movement when they are engaged in a firefight. By staying on the ground, they'll probably take less casualties, and they will hit the dirt with incoming fire anyway, but if you need them to move in a hurry (with any movement order, including attack and defense) then turning off "stay concealed" will get them to move more quickly. (Especially useful if you need them to get out of the way of imminent incoming artillery in a hurry...oops)

Originally posted by Toni:

From the manual:

"Prepare ambush: When in concealment mode, soldiers will be positioned in any available cover, and if not - only in the specified direction (houses, trenches or shell holes)"

So if you want to "prepare ambush" in a specified direction do not enable the "stay concealed" modifier in deployment. If you need it you can enable it after deployment in the initial orders phase...

Thanks for the reminder about this, Toni! I've seen this in the manual but hadn't run tests until reading your post today. It seems that the units' direction tends to vary after "prepare ambush" is used in the setup, even when "stay concealed" isn't checked, but the orientations are generally less random than when it is checked. I'm thinking that the most comprehensive way to deploy may be to focus on the "prepare ambush" decision during the deployment stage and then add the "stay concealed" and direction orientation modifiers as required in the "initial orders" phase. (Still learning about these modifiers after eight years of practice...)

[Toni]

Originally posted by Archipilot:

I've seen this in the manual but hadn't run tests until reading your post today. It seems that the units' direction tends to vary after "prepare ambush" is used in the setup, even when "stay concealed" isn't checked, but the orientations are generally less random than when it is checked.

Yes, I mostly used it back in GTOS (for example for large buildings), but in GTMF I tend to not "micro-manage" anymore. And cannot remember the last time I deliberately used it...

I just tested it, because of your post. And I noticed the same thing: It does not seem to make a lot of difference anymore, at least in large buildings. The soldiers deploy the same way, no matter if "stay concealed" is enabled or not. "Back then" I remember the difference to be stronger, maybe the feature was "weakened"?

But it is still mentioned in the manual, 2 times (p. 29 and p. 42)! Maybe it makes a difference when there are a lot of shell holes, but I cannot test this at the moment...

Anyway: With the better and more autonomous AI and the higher soldier numbers in GTMF, I would not miss it that much...

[Toni]

Originally posted by Archipilot:

The other thing worth mentioning is that the "Stay Concealed" toggle slows down infantry movement when they are engaged in a firefight. By staying on the ground, they'll probably take less casualties, and they will hit the dirt with incoming fire anyway, but if you need them to move in a hurry (with any movement order, including attack and defense) then turning off "stay concealed" will get them to move more quickly.

I remember one situation: A squad was coming under imprecise small arms fire. I had them on "stay concealed" and ordered them to move back. The movement was - of course - painfully slow, because they were crawling.

What did I do? I disabled (silly me) "stay concealed", so that that they would stand up and run. And really, when one moment there was no incoming fire, they stood up and started to run.

Now the enemy finally had clear sight on the targets and mowed them down. Will not do that again... :)

[Zorronov]

I think you have to have "stay concealed" enabled if you want sappers to sap (clear mines).