Anti Aircraft?

[Bulzome]

At the moment Close Air Support is a bit OP, both when you and the A.I. have it. If Andrey could answer my question I would like to know why anti-aircraft units or atleast those which are more capable of countering planes are not in the games. It would seem like it would make the game better overall.

[Ezra]

I am sure Andrey will chime in on the question when he finds the time. From my own understanding I believe where there is scripted airstrikes for example reflects the historical period in which air-superiority was present without decisive opposition. In the early years of the eastern front (1941-43) the Russian air force was obliterated in some regions.

On the other hand, there were Russian counter-offenses that were supported with IL-2`s with virtually no opposition as well other than minor ground defenses. Furthermore, there are minor aircraft weapons in the game which can in fact engage air assets. It just doesn`t happen very often. However, you do make a good point in terms of potential flak units which I believe were scarce in these particular operations. The latter would be devastating to infantry as well. Maybe its a balance issue---not sure.

[andrey12345 v2.0]

Originally posted by Bulzome:

At the moment Close Air Support is a bit OP, both when you and the A.I. have it. If Andrey could answer my question I would like to know why anti-aircraft units or atleast those which are more capable of countering planes are not in the games. It would seem like it would make the game better overall.

Yes, it would also be improved by field artillery, MRLS systems, anti-tank guns, light tanks, special vehicles, radiostations, tractors and a whole lot more. The only question is where to get the 3d models for all this?

One anti-aircraft gun, according to the complexity of the modelling (and the time it takes to do this), equal ~ 2-2.5 tanks or SPGs. And it needs comparatively rare. So the choice is obvious.

[Ezra]

To the credit of the initial post by Bulzome I found this excerpt from a German War Diary Archives concerning the Drive on Voronezh 1942.

"On Jul 02 1942, the 24 Pz broke the enemy’s resistance around Stary Oskol, opening the way for the 16 ID Mot, which was fighting south of it. During the afternoon, it was organized a new combat group under Major v. Hellermann (III./ PR 24, KSB 4, artillery, engineers, antitank and antiaircraft); it had to proceed to Ssineje-Lipjagij on Jul 03 in order to reach the Don river bank."

Note: According to personal account there were substantial anti-aircraft units with 24 Pz during the operation. However, if they were present in significant numbers from July 4-6 in Shilovo I do not know.

Note: Further research and excellent photos on this particular battle can be found at (Axis History Forum under "World War II and Inter-War Era/WW2 in Eastern Europe").

Search: Voroniezh 1942-1943

[Bulzome]

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

Originally posted by Bulzome:

At the moment Close Air Support is a bit OP, both when you and the A.I. have it. If Andrey could answer my question I would like to know why anti-aircraft units or atleast those which are more capable of countering planes are not in the games. It would seem like it would make the game better overall.

Yes, it would also be improved by field artillery, MRLS systems, anti-tank guns, light tanks, special vehicles, radiostations, tractors and a whole lot more. The only question is where to get the 3d models for all this?

One anti-aircraft gun, according to the complexity of the modelling (and the time it takes to do this), equal ~ 2-2.5 tanks or SPGs. And it needs comparatively rare. So the choice is obvious.

So basically there were to few mobile AA units on the front and it takes a long time along with a lot of work to model these units to make it worth adding them in? That makes sense to be honest.

[Ezra]

Bulzome,

The question you asked is interesting because the same question was raised a few years ago about the presence of Flak 36 units that supporters claimed were in use by the Germans on the Eastern Front. At the time Andre gave a similar answer that was legitimate based on several reasons like the above. However, we now have the Flak 36 as of one month ago in a free update as featured in "Black Snow." Therefore, maybe we will see some additional AA units down the road if possible, who knows? ;-)

[Bulzome]

Originally posted by Ezra:

Bulzome,

The question you asked is interesting because the same question was raised a few years ago about the presence of Flak 36 units that supporters claimed were in use by the Germans on the Eastern Front. At the time Andre gave a similar answer that was legitimate based on several reasons like the above. However, we now have the Flak 36 as of one month ago in a free update as featured in "Black Snow." Therefore, maybe we will see some additional AA units down the road if possible, who knows? ;-)

Only recently got back into Graviteam, I only have Dawn of Blau and the Tielieketi Incident DLC, but its good to know they are in. Have you used the unit? How are they against infantry and planes?

[Defiant Squirrel]

Originally posted by Ezra:

Bulzome,

The question you asked is interesting because the same question was raised a few years ago about the presence of Flak 36 units that supporters claimed were in use by the Germans on the Eastern Front. At the time Andre gave a similar answer that was legitimate based on several reasons like the above. However, we now have the Flak 36 as of one month ago in a free update as featured in "Black Snow." Therefore, maybe we will see some additional AA units down the road if possible, who knows? ;-)

Don't forget Russian 85's are in too.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1406428806

[andrey12345 v2.0]

In the game, the flak 36 (and 52-K) is in the anti-tank variant. And there are no bombers (only attack planes) that would fly at high altitudes, which would make sense to shoot from such guns.

[cyclical1]

lol.. imagine trying to pot shot the il2 with that thing..

[Ezra]

"Have you used the unit? How are they against infantry and planes?"

No. Not yet but I do have all the DLC. Just have not played with them yet. Besides I never gave it much thought for use against aircraft. Most AA units on Eastern front were used against ground targets anyway. The Luftwaffe was tasked with Anti-air. Furthermore, the Germans had air superiority in most cases prior to 1943.