[SPOILERS] What are your thoughts and feelings on the Watcher DLC?

[big ol' gabber baby]

hello everybody!
i haven't seen a discussion post that invites people to talk about their opinions on the watcher DLC, so here is (an attempt at) one.
i'll go first, here's what i've pasted elsewhere. i'll be spoiling where necessary:
what i like

• interesting creature design that i didn't expect myself to warm up to, but ended up loving. spoiler contains talk of new creatures. i enjoy the Big Moths, Fire Sprites, new Scavenger types, and Rot Lizards. (i hate the Barnacle though. more on that later on in this post.) the new Scavengers have got to be my favorite, even if they're frustrating to deal with. they somehow already made a pretty cool creature into something even Better.
  
• the music is honestly my favorite part of this DLC and i cannot wait for the vinyl release. it's so distinctive and explores the capabilities of electronic music's sound much further, and i enjoy it way more than the base game's ost as a result. it's a shame that the ost doesn't play more in-game. definitely going to be using the vibe mod heavily for this DLC! (though i don't think it's available at the moment. will have to double check!)
  
• art is BANGER. i don't like certain regions, since some feel more like a mod than rain world itself, but i still love the art regardless of my feelings toward them. Fetid Glen, Torrential Railways, Rusted Wrecks, and Torrid Desert are some of my favorite regions. and i'm looking forward to the ones i've yet to get to :0 the colors are just amazing as usual, if not better than the base game at times!
  
  what i dislike
  
  • the dead ends in this DLC suuuuuck. it's either nothing or karma flowers. the karma flowers CAN be used to leave to another region if the player so wishes, but i've unknowingly left regions that had an echo to collect. thankfully i have a mod for it, but i can't say the same for non-pc players and those that choose to not use it.
    
  • the lack of guidance in this DLC is another issue. in the base game where we have overseers and void spawns, it makes it easy to get around. by the time you have no guidance, you already know your way around. heck, even when the guides disappear, they eventually come back. while there are new regions introduced in the MSE with a lack of an overseer or void spawns, it was still fun and tolerable since they are comparatively smaller than the watcher DLC's. and the game didn't REQUIRE you to visit every bit of it, unlike the watcher DLC where you have to lest you risk not having the max karma necessary for one of the endings. the only reason i don't hate this part of the watcher DLC more is because it's fun to explore before you learn that you have to find an echo is EVERY region. but tbh, it's still Sort of fun for me. it's just a bit more annoying with that knowledge.
  
  what i hate
  
  • a mod is needed to find the echo so the player doesn't end up wasting all their time in a region. having the specific goal of finding an echo is EVERY region doesn't work when they're all absolutely massive and loosely connected to one another via warps. this feels like a superficial way of elongating the game's duration. but i've heard that the devs learned about the release date at the same time as the customer base, which would explain this issue, and everything else.
    
  • EDIT: this has been changed in the 1.10.2 patch! entire spiel for one of the new creatures in the following spoiler. the Barnacle is legitimately the WORST creature ever added to the game and i hope a mod is introduced completely removing them. or at least have the AI improved. just... SOMETHING for the love of god. they take an absurd amount of time to take care of, even when you have the necessary items to make them move. that's not even mentioning how when they panic in response and have a chance of dragging the player with them.
    
  • the lore is delivered so awfully in the DLC. i don't like the cryptic shenanigans at all. pebbs and moon were direct when given pearls. it also offers greater insight into their personalities, which is what lead to fans to love the two so much. but spinning top (the echo we encounter throughout the DLC) is just kind of... there? everywhere? and they're not exactly endearing, at least to me. additionally, i'm not a fan of how spinning top was written. it feels like the writers are brute forcing the already enigmatic nature of the ancients and it's just... kind of cringe. won't elaborate further since this bullet point is already pretty long, but i think you guys understand where i'm getting at about spinning top.

[enanan♡]

i haven't finished yet (10 hours 54 cycles no end in sight) but here are my thoughts so far ..
love:
- SPINNING TOP my terrible son. i love him. i think your criticisms are 100% valid but the main reason i disagree is because since the teaser during the six one indie showcase my theory has been that this is a very different universe from downpour so i'm trying not to take anything at face value nor assume anything in the watcher is retconning downpour lore, if you see what i mean
- those rot lizards.... wowzers. they are very annoying to deal with but i don't think the screaming wailing sounds they make are gonna leave my head any time soon
- SO MUCH STUFF? SO MUCH?? it's actually crazy and i know some people are complaining that we're paying for free community mods but tbh i think the amount of original content and the way it all ties together makes up for it
- of the lore i've seen so far i'm LOVING IT once again i understand your point of view that it's confusing and unclear but i really love theorizing about this game so i'm perfectly fine with nothing really being explicitly revealed..... gives my brain things to do when i'm bored
- the moths!!!!! special specific bullet point for the moths because man i love them. they're so pretty
- the regions themselves, not just the amount but the regions specifically, particularly torrential railways and shrouded coast
- as for the amount i think the vastness is a massive plus for me because when i played vanilla and downpour i did it with the interactive map but i'm really enjoying playing without using too many maps and just taking new routes every time i die it's fun
dislike:
- no five pebbles :(
- and no nsh or srs!!!! i knew it was very unlikely but i was really hoping we'd get to see their side of the story
- like you said the fact that it's really hard to find spinning top .....
- BARNACLES
- way too much deep water ...... leviathans make my anxiety go haywire and i had to use devtools to get around coral caves to progress the game </3
overall i love love love it

[Ninjaboy5056]

They just released an update that added warp points to the map and adjusted creature behaviors, so I'm going to hold off on discussing those points until people explore the changes. (I have heard that locusts now target other creatures, though).

I definitely agree that the creatures, art, and music are all really great.

I never really had an issue with dead ends because there's usually somewhere else to go and I loved exploring these areas, but the dead ends that are very hard to reach, like the ones that require you to do intense spear parkour over a bottomless pit, feel like they should have some kind of reward other than a karma flower for the effort to get there. (Like safari unlocks or lore pearls).

I have zero issue with the lack of guidance in this DLC. In fact, I wholeheartedly welcome it. The opening makes it pretty clear that you need to search for the echo, and there are more locations where that can show up than needed to beat the DLC. The fact that you never really know if that's in an area or where they would be led me to explore more areas and get more invested in this world. (I mean, most of them are at the far ends of the area or the highest points).

I have no complaints about the gameplay loop or the exploration, I just wish there was something beyond the main goal and the second ending to encourage exploring more. I never really felt that exploring an area fully without finding an echo was wasting my time because I loved these areas, but it could've been even better with something additional to do.

I totally get the Barnacle hate even though I never really had a problem. In most cases, there was a way around or they actually moved for me when I hit them. (They're more likely to move if you hit them with a spear and they can be outright killed if you have an explosive). I'd go into more detail, but I don't know if that recent update affected their behavior, so I'll hold off.

I don't know about the second ending, but I thought the lore for the main part of The Watcher was pretty straightforward. I love the echo, I love the story, and the ending was perfect for me. I can definitely see how the echo's dialogue come off as over the top, though. However, from my understanding of the lore, (Massive Spoilers) It's only natural that they come off as overly energetic and weird because they are essentially a dead child driven a bit crazy by their current state as they flow between different places and time periods with no real coherent method I wouldn't expect somebody like that to talk in perfect eloquent sentences or make complete sense.

This DLC brought me back to Rain World and I love it to bits. I'll definitely play it more after I finish cleaning up Expedition Mode and finish 100% completing the game. (I finally beat Arena Challenge 70, so I'm excited to finally complete the whole game).

Edit: On a personal side note: The moths are absolutely terrifying and I love them.

[pure randomness]

i really liked watcher, but everything felt a bit boring and tiring to play through. (sorry for not really explaining why, im too lazy)

[>112358<]

To me it's always nice to have more regions, and some regions have some amazing new stuff(lightning, dunes, mud pits, etc) I'd love to see them being used in more regions. though I think most of these new regions need polish. Some new creatures are really cool(moth, rot lizard, indigo lizard etc), I also like the idea of locust and my only complaint about them was they don't target other creatures( it's fixed now but I haven't played badlands after the patch)

[TheMiles]

I think, fewer yet more polished areas would've been better than the thousands we got.

-I obviously have favorites and it was really nice seeing so many biomes, but at the same time some areas felt a bit too.. off and odd.
Fetid Glenn, while pretty, didn't feel like an area that once actually did something. The invisible mushrooms and odd skybox, while really giving me wonderful liminal vibes, just didn't quite feel.. Rainworldy to me. There were plenty of areas that had such cool ideas, but after spending SO much time in the DLC, being trapped in unfair and frustrating situations, I sometimes just ended up trying to get through the areas quick, making me not really interact with much.

-The areas also could've been connected to some degree. Some places felt very similar to others, making me think they MUST be connected, but no, they were two different places.
Having regions with multiple, slightly smaller areas that are then connected via the portals could've probably helped.

-I personally liked both endings. However, the Rot Prince ending again felt odd. It's cool, don't get me wrong. Love the concept, absolutely. But there wasn't the same connection I have with Pebbles or Moon.
Spinning Top was far more likeable to me, as was their ending. It fit what I ended up seeing in the Watcher better too. Someone who's essentially alone and who's always just kinda.. there. Someone being there was all Spinning Top seemed to need, so it felt better to me.

-The Slugcat though. Maybe it's the way it was meant to be, but when playing the other slugcats, I got a feeling for who they were to some degree. It was all beautifully told via their actions, the dialogues and dreams.
Spearmaster being extremely loyal and loved by SRS. Rivulet being a hyperactive free spirit with a lot of love for all they do for Moon and Pebbles. Hunters determination to fulfill his mission, despite the odds and the ticking time. Artis pain and grief and anger had me so gripped that I felt it and when her ending in the city dropped, I felt the same emptiness she must have.
I didn't have that for the Watcher.
While I think that the Watcher is supposed to be indifferent and aloof, perhaps too shy or scared to take action even, they still interact with the world all the same.
When I saw the intro, I thought that Watchers entire point would be their inability to defend themselves or do something for others, even loved ones, but they played just like any regular Slugcat.
It would've felt so much more impactful to have helped Spinning Top after being but an observer to everything beforehand, only finding the empathy/courage to care once you got to know them.
That, or perhaps their entire campaign could've been centered around well.. seeing things. While you do explore and do wander a lot, none of the watching feels meaningful.
I would've simply leaned more into the entire "watcher" thing. An Observer of what is, perhaps.

That said, after reading up on the development hell that it must've been, I'm also willing to wait out some patches and see where it goes.
There was a LOT of extremely frustrating things, but there were also things that had me going away from it happy. Seeing living Ancients for one. I was not prepared, it was so nice.

Guess I'll be uh... watching it.

[Madisaurus]

luckily barnacles can now be killed with snails :)

[Thicket]

I wish some of the new stuff would be implemented into the base game and downpour, like why shouldn't there be barnacles in drainage and mud in outer expanse?