What Happened to Four Needles Under Plentiful Leaves During the Saint Campaign?

[casasuescun]

During the Saint campaign Four Needles Under Plentiful Leaves (The Shaded Citadel Echo) is no where to be found at all. Given that Five Pebbles crashed down onto Shaded and absolutely obliterated the whole place, does that mean that Four Needles Under Plentiful Leaves finally could ascend and move beyond as the thing that was tying them to the world no longer exists? Or are they trapped deep under ground in some miserable air pocket of Shaded maybe? I know the Echos can relocate as Six Grains of Gravel Mountains Abound did to the remnants of The Leg but seeing that Four Needles Under Plentiful Leaves didn't that leaves me wondering. I really hope they were able to finally ascend because that has positive implications for the other Echos eventually being able to be freed. Does anyone have answers?

[RCMidas]

After examining the maps carefully, I think we have to conclude Four Needles is in an area of Shaded Citadel that we don't visit. Six Grains moving is interesting, seeing as how the physical location they used to haunt is still there. It's also worth noting that Saint can perceive four Echoes which the other slugcats cannot, even if they visit the same areas. This is suggestive of two things:

A) Echoes can eventually fade away as you suggest.
B) Some Echoes are sufficiently faded that only a karmically-unique creature like the Saint can perceive them.

Whether we can deduce from this that an Echo may fade away such that it functionally does not exist, so that not even the Saint can perceive them, is a question still up in the air. I would argue that a faded Echo has, if not ascended, then been "crossed out" as some of their philosophies put it. The effect is the same, but the journey is so much tougher than just Void Fluid immersion.

[casasuescun]

Valid points, thank you.