Best route for saint?

[Rhythm]

Major spoilers, below...



Starting in sky islands, you get the one echo right off the bat, but you still need 6 more echoes to max out karma- so what is the best route to take for getting them? Least backtracking, least headache, go here, go there, go to five pebbles, and hear what he has to say, or not, he's probably dead by now.

[RCMidas]

Well, the world has changed quite a bit, so the normal "Sky Islands - Chimney Canopy - The Exterior" opener that I would normally suggest from such a start is no longer physically possible.

I would suggest nipping next door into Chimney Canopy for that Echo whilst you're there, but then head back through Sky Islands into Farm Arrays, Subterranean, and then Drainage System into Shoreline. Why that way? Because there are two new Echoes in Drainage System and Shoreline (beyond Moon, specifically).

You can then head up into what was once Shaded Citadel for one more easy Echo, and keep an eye out for Pebbles whilst you're at it. You could make the incredibly difficult climb for the only other Echo in the Bitter Aerie way above Moon instead. That way you can max out your karma and immediately head back through Drainage System into Subterranean.

Note that Saint does not get Passages. It's a true pilgrimage.

EDIT: And I advise always carrying that scavenger lantern you first pick up for added warmth. I don't think carrying it in your stomach helps as much, or at all - I've yet to test this.

[CR_East]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

I don't think carrying it in your stomach helps as much, or at all - I've yet to test this.

Carrying the lantern in your stomach does give you warmth, I did that my whole campaign. But to what extent is a mystery to me as well. I tried to figure that out while playing but the nature of the blizzard makes it hard to formulate a control group on the fly.

[Redlegoguy1]

Originally posted by CR_East:

Originally posted by RCMidas:

I don't think carrying it in your stomach helps as much, or at all - I've yet to test this.

Carrying the lantern in your stomach does give you warmth, I did that my whole campaign. But to what extent is a mystery to me as well. I tried to figure that out while playing but the nature of the blizzard makes it hard to formulate a control group on the fly.

Current wiki information makes it sound like having one in the stomach is the same as holding one, but it's not explicitly stated. I imagine you could make an argument that from a physical perspective in some ways it would make sense if the stomach lantern was more effective, but I definitely don't think that's the case. Regardless, I never noticed much of a difference in warming when I swapped the lantern between the stomach slot and in hand, even when in the exact same position, so my bet is that if there is a difference it's mostly negligible.

[ringtones]

I started by heading down and getting the Farm Arrays and Subterranean echoes. You'll have to head that way again later but I thought it was a pretty quick boost to the karma gauge. You can easily burn through the deer segments in a single cycle using the bouncy frog creatures that have moved in.

[Redlegoguy1]

After messing around a bit on my second saint save, a fairly efficient path seems to be Sky -> pop into chimney for echo -> farm arrays -> subterranean -> pop into undergrowth for echo -> shoreline -> silent, as mentioned already. Notably that is one of the shortest options that only visits zones containing echoes.
There's not a lot of good options without at least some backtracking, as 5 of the echoes are placed in zones that form a loop: sky -> chimney -> undergrowth -> subterranean -> farm arrays -> sky. Another route with (mostly) only echoes would be sky -> farm arrays -> pop into subterranean for echo -> sky -> chimney -> undergrowth -> subterranean/garbage wastes -> shoreline/silent -> silent/shoreline. I can imagine that being maybe an easier route in some regards, but it's probably a lot more distance due to echo placement within the zones, especially for silent and undergrowth.

[Jai]

How are y'all getting into Subterranean from Farm Arrays without getting killed by worm grass at that hurdle before the gate?? Usually I'd spear the wall, but... Saint.

[Redlegoguy1]

Originally posted by Jaitsu:

How are y'all getting into Subterranean from Farm Arrays without getting killed by worm grass at that hurdle before the gate?? Usually I'd spear the wall, but... Saint.

I'm not really certain which room you're referring to from this description alone, but I'm assuming it may be one of the alternate paths added to farm arrays with downpour. There's some really tight jumps in parts of one if you're not careful, but all of it can be done without any advanced movement abilities, it's just a slim margin for error. You can also still go through the rain deer route as well if you're struggling with the alternate route, deer are even a bit easier to deal with as saint because you can grapple your way up on to them.

[BroadFlatNails]

Originally posted by Jaitsu:

How are y'all getting into Subterranean from Farm Arrays without getting killed by worm grass at that hurdle before the gate?? Usually I'd spear the wall, but... Saint.

Not sure which section, but you can climb sheer walls as saint, so you don't need to ever spear walls.
To climb a wall, turn towards it on the ground, then repeat jump without directional inputs. If you let go of the tongue early enough, you only gain vertical velocity.

If you mean that "cave" with rain deer skull above it, you can use the deer. They can be even less reliable than on non-saint, because they seem to care more about the blizzard than about the rain, but they can still get down there.

[Redlegoguy1]

Originally posted by BroadFlatNails:

Not sure which section, but you can climb sheer walls as saint, so you don't need to ever spear walls.

This was my first thought as well, but depending on the room I can see the potential problem. I think the issue may not be vertical travel, but horizontal. In the alt route, there's some jumps between poles and platforms where it's easy to fall short, which can be circumvented by first throwing a spear into the top of the platform from farther down the pole, effectively giving you a shorter jump to make. You can't just wall climb like usual from the bottom because it's a wormgrass pit, and you can't just grab on higher up because there's no ceiling and the goal is to get on top of the platform.

All that being said, if that is the right spot, in addition to the already mentioned options, you could try a yeek as well. That's easier than it sounds for saint specifically, though it may still not be worth the trouble compared to taking a different path.