Artificer question (Downpour SPOILERS)

[suomuhauki]

So, through dreams we figure out Artificer lost her pups to scavengers. But, why doesn't the cycle apply to them? Why don't they reincarnate, but instead their bodies are left to sink to the void sea?

[Deerbeetledog]

we can deduct that the cycle works almost like you get transported to an alternate universe, for the artificer the pups are dead, however the pups themselves woke back up

[Dual Lances]

This is a confusing one. The cycle is very weird, it's as if every creature is playing through their own campaign, their own story, their own game. If one creature dies, and you, who saw that creature and was in the same hibernation den as them, also dies, time resets, and both of you are in the den again. For Artificer, the pups are dead. They confirm that when they get killed by the scavs and leeches. Here's the confusing part: If Artificer was to die on that cycle, she would be back with her pups, and could retry her encounter with the scavs. She didn't do this however, and instead hibernated and lost her pups forever. If Artificer was a little more aware of the cycle's capabilities, she could have her pups, and have a minor hatred for scavengers. We could have completely avoided the Art's campaign if she had died that cycle. So yeah, there's your reasoning. Sorry if it was long. Hope you have fun with the downpour dlc!

[suomuhauki]

Ah i see, does the game mention that the cycle works individually as mentioned or are these just theories?

[Honkiewithaboomstick]

The way I interpret it is: The game doesn't have literal reincarnation like, say, dark souls. Where if you die you are literally brought back to life in the same world, but like some time later.

It's more metaphysical, like everything can die. But when these things die they just wake up in an instance of the multiverse where they didn't. Meaning things can "die" but no soul ever loses consciousness

It'd be like if you woke up and went through your day, then got hit by a car and died, but then woke up in your bed at the start of the day before you got hit by said car. People you met could still die in your life. And you would be dead to all of the people in any of the universes you died in. But you would remain conscious and not "truly" die up until either your final possible "death" that fate or probability has planned or by taking the void dip.

Pretty scary spiritual/metaphysical concept as it could be happening irl just nobody has the "karma" to be aware of it

[45]

this is because the in game mechanic of "cycles" is different from the in lore application. Every hibernation isnt a cycle story-wise only gameplay wise. Before downpour it was implied reincarnation was the same as religious reincarnation, being born again into a new life. But downpour has no respect for the vanilla game at all and so we get the nonsense with saint and an echo in arti's campaign whose writing is made omniscient and talks about things that arent itself when the whole point of an echo is that its self absorbed. They also botched the writing for both iterators across all campaigns adding weird "uwuisms".

So by the same logic the answer is there is no answer because downpour doesn't make sense.

[Honkiewithaboomstick]

Originally posted by 45:

this is because the in game mechanic of "cycles" is different from the in lore application. Every hibernation isnt a cycle story-wise only gameplay wise. Before downpour it was implied reincarnation was the same as religious reincarnation, being born again into a new life. But downpour has no respect for the vanilla game at all and so we get the nonsense with saint and an echo in arti's campaign whose writing is made omniscient and talks about things that arent itself when the whole point of an echo is that its self absorbed. They also botched the writing for both iterators across all campaigns adding weird "uwuisms".

So by the same logic the answer is there is no answer because downpour doesn't make sense.

All of downpour was approved by the original devs. Like it or not this lore is cannon now.
Although I have my personal minor gripes with Downpour campaigns design wise I'm curious.
What specific "uwuisms" did downpour add in iterator dialouge that you didn't like, can you list any specific examples?

[Rhythm]

In-game death != lore death. Dying causes reincarnation, not revivification.

[45]

Originally posted by Honkiewithaboomstick:

All of downpour was approved by the original devs. Like it or not this lore is cannon now.
Although I have my personal minor gripes with Downpour campaigns design wise I'm curious.
What specific "uwuisms" did downpour add in iterator dialouge that you didn't like, can you list any specific examples?

they added *~* all over moons ♥♥♥♥ and misunderstood 5p's personality which was cold because he was focused and trying to solve his problems and not rude or petty. 5p calling gourm "rotund" is just stupid when 5p is a massive super structure. the way he complains is just out of character when he was so to the point originally.

also you dont need to tell me the devs dont care about their game thats already obvious.

[45]

Originally posted by Heptaparaparshinokh:

Seeing you not understanding the basic workings of the cycle makes it a less surprising that you don't get the characters either.
Have you played the first three campaigns?

You mean the first campaign? Because the game's development has gone downhill since the addition of monk and hunter. The point of the game was a spiritual journey to pass into the afterlife and escape the cycle of reincarnation. Reincarnation doesn't mean you're going back in time it means you're reborn to a new life. It's no coincidence they call the survival system "karma" the story's based in Hinduism.

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by 45:

You mean the first campaign? Because the game's development has gone downhill since the addition of monk and hunter. The point of the game was a spiritual journey to pass into the afterlife and escape the cycle of reincarnation. Reincarnation doesn't mean you're going back in time it means you're reborn to a new life. It's no coincidence they call the survival system "karma" the story's based in Hinduism.

I think I'm beginning to see the issue here. I apologise therefore for attempting to engage with you earlier, and indeed for wasting our mutual time with this post, but given that your problems with the game stem from the time of the mere introduction of Monk and Hunter, there is simply no reasonable possibility of our seeing eye-to-eye on this. I wish you a pleasant existence and meaningful relationships.

[Dual Lances]

Originally posted by John Cope Vilgerðarson:

Ah i see, does the game mention that the cycle works individually as mentioned or are these just theories?

These aren't theories, it's all real. All creatures have their own timeline, their own story. This is basically confirmed by FP when he says: "You are stuck in a cycle. A never ending loop. You want a way out. However, you are not special. Every other creature shares the same frustration." Or, something along those lines. Basically, you, the player, have your own story. He says every other creature shares the same frustration as you. This means every other creature has their own story, as I mentioned. It quite literally means all creatures have their own personal alternate dimension, different from each other. This is off topic, but it means every creature is basically their own god. They have their own universe. Their own world, if you will. The cycle system is very confusing. It's one of the main reason I love Rain World.

[45]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

I think I'm beginning to see the issue here. I apologise therefore for attempting to engage with you earlier, and indeed for wasting our mutual time with this post, but given that your problems with the game stem from the time of the mere introduction of Monk and Hunter, there is simply no reasonable possibility of our seeing eye-to-eye on this. I wish you a pleasant existence and meaningful relationships.

That's because I'm right. Nobody talked about how great of an experience hunter or monk was.

[Rhythm]

Originally posted by 45:

Originally posted by RCMidas:

I think I'm beginning to see the issue here. I apologise therefore for attempting to engage with you earlier, and indeed for wasting our mutual time with this post, but given that your problems with the game stem from the time of the mere introduction of Monk and Hunter, there is simply no reasonable possibility of our seeing eye-to-eye on this. I wish you a pleasant existence and meaningful relationships.

That's because I'm right. Nobody talked about how great of an experience hunter or monk was.

so you think you and you alone get to decide and gatekeep what the developer's intention for the game was? You think you know better what they wanted for the game? I replied to the wrong post but you said

"The point of the game was a spiritual journey to pass into the afterlife and escape the cycle of reincarnation. Reincarnation doesn't mean you're going back in time it means you're reborn to a new life. It's no coincidence they call the survival system "karma" the story's based in Hinduism."

You don't, as a player, get to pick and choose what plot points you think are relevant to the devs dude. I mean, they added an alternate ending for survivor and most other slugs that tend to go directly against this idea.

[PizzaCake]

Hey, i'd like to share my interpretation of this
Maybe they didn't die, because the dreams are from Artificer's perspective, as she presumes they died in these events.
It's possible that the slugpups got taken away by the scavengers/flow of the water(like what happens to Survivor) and Artificer never found them again, presuming that they died and having nightmare's about these events
In her ascension ending she see's her children in the void sea, it could both be that as she dies, her mind starts replaying memories of her childrens like a "life flashes before your eyes" kind of thing, but also could be that while she was making her revenge against the scavengers, the slugpups somehow found their way into the void sea and ascended without her.

That would be my guess.

[Dual Lances]

Originally posted by donutSalami ::

Hey, i'd like to share my interpretation of this
Maybe they didn't die, because the dreams are from Artificer's perspective, as she presumes they died in these events.
It's possible that the slugpups got taken away by the scavengers/flow of the water(like what happens to Survivor) and Artificer never found them again, presuming that they died and having nightmare's about these events
In her ascension ending she see's her children in the void sea, it could both be that as she dies, her mind starts replaying memories of her childrens like a "life flashes before your eyes" kind of thing, but also could be that while she was making her revenge against the scavengers, the slugpups somehow found their way into the void sea and ascended without her.

That would be my guess.

Well, I have to disagree on the fact that you stated the current takes them away.

From my experience, slugpups have HORRIBLE lung capacity, and it's even shown that leeches get to the slugpups. From the looks of it as well, the area the slugpup got dragged in from the water was a lake. Leeches tend to hang around lakes. Also, last time I saw the dreams, (i don't know if this is true, haven't visited art campaign in a bit) it shows the slugpup's "lung light" (the light that shows up when you're about to drown) was blinking, and stopped. Also, the fact that the slugpups were in the void sea probably means they are dead, and the art is seeing them there because they're dead. This is shown in Monk and Survivor campaign, where the slugcats see their families and siblings. Plus, why would Art hate scavengers for literally no reason and make it her one goal in life to kill their leader? The slugpups probably died.

But, they're never dead, are they? For all we know, since the two slugpups died, they ended up back together with the Art. They all could have ascended in that timeline. Frankly, from any creature's perspective, the "protagonist" (creature) never dies. That's how the cycle works.

Good guess, though. Everyone has their own opinions and beliefs. Your story is believable for the average rain world player!