[SPOILER] A little about Artificer and others

[Teal V2]

Heya, if you read this and you don't want to see any spoilers, do not read further. Don't even hover your mouse over this.
Hussshh! You don't want to see spoilers, I see it in your eyes!
Dude, I warned you at least 2 times, if you still read, don't come at me with:
"Ye-ye spoilers, but you knew that people might hover over and read, it is your fault I read it!"
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Hy, you might be here who actually wants to read this post!

So, about Artificer, the mother losing her pups.
I have only one question, though.

The void sea ending.
I made research and checked all endings and logs and whatnot to know what this special liquid does to our heroes, and I hardly can make a result, as it seemingly different to... Everyone.

Artificer is the first I see... Dissolving. Which supposed to be the result when you are accepted for "ascension" or when.. not.

Well, as we know now, thanks to The Saint, how an echo is formed, we can guess, Artificer indeed ascended, cuz her event was nothing like the event when you end up being an echo.

But, why she dissolves? We saw other protagonists in the sea's depths, none of them dissolved, not even hunter, who maybe got cured of her disease and also met her AI friend.

She finds her two pups.. But they remain while Artificer dissolves into... nothingness.
Were the pups just illusions? Hallucinations caused by the sea?
Maybe the last thing a dying creature might see?

Would them be something we were looking for, our heart's desire?
But isn't the requirement to not get into an echo state is to not have any desires?

So, technically, Artificer had to forget her past, her hunger for revenge, the sadness she felt for her pups to enter to the sea. Accepting there is nothing for her in this world and so, she can "ascend", leaving all morals and desires behind.

What happened to her?

[Nen☆niN]

Didn't Arti just... Disappear? After she holds her kids we see her disappear, leaving the kids behind. Not ascension nor echo. That's how I percieved it at least. Idk what happened, maybe as you said the kids were hallucinations of a dying animal, and as she dissolved she just died, and woke right back up again.

Originally posted by Teal V2:

But isn't the requirement to not get into an echo state is to not have any desires?

Not necessarily. Karma 10 is a requirement, but I don't think being void from desire is what makes you ascend properly. Not that I think you can ascend while harboring any desire; a too large ego is what keeps the ancients in echo form. But back to karma 10, can arti even have karma 10? I think 9 is the max, and you have to sneak past the guards while holding a scav, right? Since she doesn't have sufficient karma, the void fluid's worldly properties take priority over the spiritual ones, it dissolves the matter of Arti's body instead of attempting an ascension (neither failed (echo) nor successful), thus simply killing her, keeping her stuck in the cycle in perpetuity. But hey, that's just a theory.

[Teal V2]

Yeah, I total forgot that she cannot have 10 karma but 9 so she needs to be tricky with a scavenger.

But based on what we know, the ones enterting either ascended (erased from existance, or who knows what hapenned to those), or they "mutated", so they did not die but were affected, that is what we see as an echo (I guess?).

So in theory, Artificer only had 2 options there. Ascension or be an echo, not?
There are no more options if I remember right.

[|Revenge|]

As Far as i am Aware, artificer didn't ascend, she Just got erased. The void Worms did not Help her on the way down like they do with the other slugcats.

Ascension is a process that erases your body, leaving only the soul to Cross a point of no return. Which we have no understanding of by definition. Artificer got destroyed body and soul because her karma wasn't enough. I believed that she died a true death, but didn't ascend to "leave this world behind".

[Nen☆niN]

Originally posted by Teal V2:

So in theory, Artificer only had 2 options there. Ascension or be an echo, not?
There are no more options if I remember right.

We haven't seen any other options before, but who's to say they're the only two? But on another note, we know that Void Fluid can dissolve matter, it dissolves the rocks beneath the world. Since Arti didn't have 10 karma, the void fluid didn't "percieve" her as a being meant for ascension, rather something akin to a rock or another inanimate object, simply destroying her physical body rather than soul. But of course, everything I've said here is just conjecture.

Originally posted by |Revenge|:

I believed that she died a true death, but didn't ascend to "leave this world behind".

True death and ascension is the same: an escape from the cycle of death and rebirth.

[Teal V2]

Originally posted by Nen☆niS:

True death and ascension is the same: an escape from the cycle of death and rebirth.

Yeah, that is what I thought as well. They were looking for this true death to begin with, so it is equal to ascension, which is the way they call "no more rebirth", be it anything, I guess.

But I am not exactly agree with this rock dissolving theory.

As far as we know, ancients tried to bath in the liquid, and there were 2 outcomes.
They either got erased completely (guess the ones with 10 karma), which is the ascension, or they "changed", becoming an echo.

This is why I mentioned "there are 2 outcomes as far we know".

If we see Artificer dissolving, then she supposed to ascend. Unless she dies there, which means she will respawn.

But, if we want to get further into it, we have the Saint, who enters the void with 10 karma, then attacks the worm, most likely because of hunger of power or something.
If that is what the ancients called "ego", and so they became an echo as their punishment, then there is indeed 3 outcomes.
10 karma ones being good fellas ascend.
10 karma ones being bad fellas become echo
9 and lower karma ones... fate unknown. Maybe they will rebirth as usual.

However which makes it interesting is that, I do not remember any info about Ancients mentioning anyone came back from the void. They say the opposite, to be precise.
No one has ever came back as they were. They disappeared, or "changed". There is no, "they reborn again as usual".

But I hardly can believe all Ancients had 10 karma when they entered, so they only experienced the good and bad 10 karma outcomes.

And the issue starts here. What happens to the ones with 9 and less karma when enter?
They do not return either... But they cannot die because it would also be a success to them, since that is what they want to reach.
If that was the case, all ancients could just jump into the void sea and get erased, as I guess, it was not common to have 10 karma among them.

This is why I think Artificer either ascended (which looks a bit different than others', since others don't dissolve), or she died on a different way.
Maybe her rebirth will be different, and she won't have memories of her past life.
That would explain why Ancients didn't find the 9 and lower karma ones. Because they were already erased, from memory, but not physically.
But there are no signs to this, it is just a thought.

Artificer's dissolving body is a mystery.

[Nano]

I want to bring another issue to the table: Why were the artificer's children in the void? How did they get there?

[MadArtillery]

Honestly the whole ascension thing and even the cycles of rebirth themselves aren't exactly well explained. I expect it's just another mystery.