I shouldn't need to cheat to escape an unbalanced level

[hati]

Was absolutely loving this game, until I got to the infamous filtration/drainage systems gate, where you get stuck in a trap and can't go back to raise your karma level. There's only enough food for a single cycle so you literally have absolutely no choice but to backtrack.

I only figured out how to escape by looking up guide videos, which I consider a form of cheating (unless I've already beaten a game at least once). Even then, the means of escape are utterly ridiculous and only possible to do with absolutely perfect precision. Playing Monk wouldn't help either, given that the issues are environment design, not the enemies.

This *used* to be one of my favorite games, with over 40+ hours from the last month spent exploring and learning everything I could about the world. But it's not fun anymore - it's just frustrating and boring. 10 of those hours were just from trying to escape the trap. I've successfully beaten every other region and killed just about every creature, so I don't wanna hear anything about "git gud". The issue is clearly from a lack of balance.

I don't even think I can enjoy Downpour when it comes out. Trying to play the new slugcats just sounds draining, and not worth my effort. If I could, I would give back all my memories of playing and ask for a refund. The game has been that ruined for me.

It feels like the devs just phoned in the last sections. Why bother even beating it. I might as well just watch a Let's Play video of the ending since that's the kind of culture the devs want to foster.

I'll definitely be changing my review to warn other players that their money is better spent elsewhere.

[hati]

Originally posted by Vulpes Velox:

It's just I keep hearing about new players getting stuck really early in Drainage, so I figured it was something like that.

I understand. I like hard games, which is what attracted me to Rainworld in the first place, and why I absolutely hated Stray when it came out.

I assure you, I tried and tried and tried. I didn't just give up immediately.

[hati]

Originally posted by <:):

There's no way to you spent 10 hours stuck on one simple room and never found out how to escape lmao

I spent about 2 hours trying to escape through the top-route, and then 2 trying to escape the lower route. Then I looked up guide videos, and spent another 2 hours on the top route and another 4 on the lower route.

I don't know what else to tell you man. I'm just fed up and done.

[hati]

Originally posted by Spark7979:

You use spears to get up there. Unless you've somehow wasted all of them there should be a few laying around you can use.

Spear placement is based on rng, and you need at least 3-4. And even then you can only clear some of the gaps with jump-throwing some rubble to extend your jump distance, which also relies on rng to make sure there's enough conveniently placed rubble to use.

And if you mess up the slightest amount, or you have backtrack too far to get another spear, then you won't have enough time to reach the previous shelter. Especially if you need to eat as well.

[peasan't von peasan't]

this post and your replies are just... bizarre

[hati]

Originally posted by peasan't von peasan't:

this post and your replies are just... bizarre

It's probably because I myself am still conflicted. I love the game, but I cannot help but feel irritation with the ridiculous ways it tries to artificially inflate difficulty through platforming.

[Camerons101]

Originally posted by hati:

Originally posted by peasan't von peasan't:

this post and your replies are just... bizarre

It's probably because I myself am still conflicted. I love the game, but I cannot help but feel irritation with the ridiculous ways it tries to artificially inflate difficulty through platforming.

Get over it... It's a game and you weren't smart enough to figure out what to do. It happens... Holy hell peoples' egos are fragile. No balancing around a someone's lack of problem solving skills.

[stealthXG]

If only you've used more brain power you probably would have figured it out.

[Blahness]

I have just about traversed 100% of the game on my current run and there have been a couple situations where I have been stuck, but these situations were when I was trying to pursue side objectives like pearls, There are some areas that require spears and 0 spawn, so the only thing to do is kill yourself and hope you get spears. There was only one situation where I was stuck at a low karma level in an area that had almost no food for me to farm, so I just used one of my passages to max out karma and move on. If you have the foresight to save a passage or two, then you should never get stuck in a spot that doesn't require spears, for spears you need RNG.

[hati]

Originally posted by Camerons101:

Get over it... It's a game and you weren't smart enough to figure out what to do. It happens... Holy hell peoples' egos are fragile. No balancing around a someone's lack of problem solving skills.

Here's two great suggestions to balance this level:
- Move the vault to the other side of the gate. This will prevent people from getting stuck, as they will just die if they aren't high enough karma level.
- Place a reachable pole at the bottom of the big drop off chamber before the gate. At the moment, the only way to get back up from the drop off is by jump-throwing to the platforms on the right, but the game doesn't even tell you that jump-throwing is a thing. This placement would allow people to exploit the food sources at the bottom water tunnel and be able to get back to the vault.

[hati]

Originally posted by stealthXG:

If only you've used more brain power you probably would have figured it out.

How many more hours would you recommend I spend trying to get out of a single area? Another 10 hours? Another 20 hours? At what point am I finally allowed to say that the level design here sucks?

[hati]

Originally posted by Blahness:

If you have the foresight to save a passage or two, then you should never get stuck in a spot that doesn't require spears, for spears you need RNG.

Unfortunately I used all my passages doing lore stuff with the pearls, because I thought the whole pearl-lore mechanic was super cool. The game was extremely well designed and balanced up to this point, so I didn't realize I could get stuck like this..

[45]

Originally posted by Deanis:

Originally posted by hati:

That's a cop out. Balancing a game involves making sure that difficulty increases smoothly, not randomly and sporadically. If the entire game was like this one section at the gate, I would have stopped playing after 30 minutes and asked for a refund.

But it's not. The rest of the game is actually fun. Ergo, this is an example of bad game balance.

The game wasn't really made to be balanced, It's an artificially intelligent simulated ecosystem. The creatures are trying to do their own thing, they don't care about you. They are doing what you are doing, which is trying to survive. The player isn't given any perks (such as a balanced game), so it is intended to be difficult. Drainage system should not be ventured, for it is too dangerous. Just follow the overseer or take a different gate. Going back a region isn't cheating, it's progress.

i did drainage at the start it reminded me of hearts of darkness' 2nd stage. it was tough but very satisfying. i never even went to wastes my first go.

[Venator]

you can't reason with these people. you can tell from the manner they respond that they dont care and their elitism has rotted their brains. they have 1 game they enjoy and play for 1000s of hrs then when new players are like yeah this is poorly designed they lash out lest they lose the grace of their 1 product. just leave a negative review and move on theres no winning with these people.

[Bulk Flummox]

Auteur works of art like this often have some frustrating flaws. Yeah, it'd be an improvement if they did move the shelter to the other side like you mentioned. Drainage System is more than hard enough as it is.

Is there not a save editor or something for Rain World that you could use to change your position with? Sidestep the problem and carry on with the fun parts. After a certain point it's just not worth it to keep trying and you're well past that.

They may well change this. They've changed many things since it was first released, it used to be MUCH worse. Dying used to reset your map exploration progress to how it was at the shelter for example. Brutal

[Metric Guard]

I don't get it. I was just exploring Drainage System, and there's absolutely a way to go from the FS<DS gate to either OS or GW without using any fancy tricks or spears. Just jump down to the big pool after the tunnels, then head right until there's a pipe that goes upward, or keep going right to reach GW.

There's a room or two with some leeches, but if those silly little water worms are stumping you, try luring them near a pole before jumping off the top of said pole. In my experience, these leech rooms didn't demand any luck, so I can't see how they would be too challenging, much less for someone who explored most of the other regions.

Difficulty is subjective, I suppose. Heck, until I entered this discussion, I didn't know snails could be used against leeches despite how obvious that is in hindsight.