Ask any questions about the game here

[oddball]

I've played most of the campaigns on the top difficulty including through all of Allies Defiant. This includes pretty much all of the bonus objectives. If you have any questions about how to handle a scenario or how the game mechanics work I can answer.

[Grendel88]

Awesome. I have read your other posts, and always gained some insight from those. I am a long time board gamer, who cut his teeth in the 1970's on Bookcase games like Squad Leader, 3rd Reich, etc. I had always complained that most computer games on war were more brainless exercises in 1st person shooting, like COD (which I do play from time to time).

Anyhoo. Order of Battle is a dream come true, but I find my use of the range of units leaves a lot to be desired. I have noticed you used quite a range of forces, compared to what I normally do. Do you have some advice on how to form your "baseline" contingent and mix of forces? I feel I go to "mech" centric....

[oddball]

I've mentioned this in a couple places, but I tend to work with the concept that my overall "army" is compromised of various battle groups. So instead of an amorphous blob I'll have a mech group and a rifle group or two. I tend to name them after divisions and tell scale to go hang personally, but group works just fine.

As a note here I'll refer to cover. Each terrain tile has a cover percent between 0 and 100. This acts as a modifier on the stats of units. If you see in the detailed stats view that a unit has two values in a particular stat square, the value on the left is the 0% cover and the value on the right is the 100% value. Most terrain is in the 0-60% range, with only cities and a couple of the roughest terrain types hitting the 80-100% range. So if a unit has 9@0% and 4@100%, in 50% cover it will have 6 or 7. Check the terrain, think about how you'll be using a unit and you'll have a good idea whether or not you need those high cover values to be good. Note that the defender's tile is the one that matters in combat!

The idea here is that each formation has all the tools it needs to operate independently, but that they can also support one another if needed. In addition they should be tailored to achieving particular operational objectives such as tackling large cities or jungles or forests vs moving quickly to seize key terrain or cut off the enemy or grab a distant objective. The end result is a fairly flexible army that also happens to contain a good mix of units and -- as a nice bonus -- performs well on higher difficulties.

As the names indicate the chief point of differentiation is speed. A mech group should all have units capable of moving at least at speed 6 and ideally all of them should have mech chassis due to the better offroad performance. A rifle group by contrast can get away with 2-4 speed units because they are targeting a lower speed. Mech groups tend to do well offroad and aren't dependent on cover, while rifle groups tend to need roads for the slower units and need terrain when fighting.

Given that concept, I'll usually try to have 2-3 "front line" units for any formation.

As an example for an armor group, the front line units would be 2x medium tanks and 1x combat capable recon car. Tanks and mounted infantry can't spot mines or units hidden in good cover but recon cars can, so they're critical for moving fast! In addition I'll usually want a self propelled artillery piece (which doesn't need to be particularly heavy as it'll mostly be firing at stuff in the open and lighter guns have virtually the same performance as heavy in that situation), a self propelled ATG and ideally an engineer and heavy weapons infantry (both of which should have mech transports). I also tend to bring SPAA, but only if I think I'm going to be outgunned in the air (so mandatory in the Soviet campaign but unnecessary in the UK campaign). AT guns are important because a mech group tends to run into enemy armor and the reaction fire from the ATG in support of any unit that gets attacked next to them is a massive boost to armor combat performance, especially against heavier tanks. The eng is there because 7 shock damage and a big hit to efficiency are excellent for taking towns by coup de main and the HW is there in case we need to hold ground or to follow up in attacks by the engineer. The downside of this group is the cost. Any losses are extremely expensive because tanks have a high base cost and with veterancy it only gets worse. So whenever possible I avoid meatgrinder scenarios with them and try to look for ways to envelop and destroy the enemy with them.

Meanwhile in a rifle group the frontliners should all be cheap rifle infantry. Since they lack combat power on their own their mission is typically to hang out in front of the artillery in rough or wooded terrain and act as meat shields until the enemy is softened up enough for them to attack. I will usually give them AA (if the campaign warrants) and AT that have 2 movement without a transport. If an ATG is available that can also fire as artillery it is an instant purchase for an rifle group! In addition I will usually give them the heaviest artillery piece available. And if after fully equipping them in this manner I still have points available I will try to give them a heavier tank (Matilda, KV1, SU/ISU-152) especially if that tank can also fire as artillery. It might be best to think of them as artillery parks with attached infantry! The advantage of this formation is that it is very cheap to maintain. Most of your losses will be on the infantry and they can take those losses in the sort of heavy cover that artillery sucks at shooting into while their own artillery levels the enemy.

I usually also have some floating units that can be assigned to a particular group based on need. For example if I think a rifle group is going to run into a bunch of mines I'll send them along with an engineer. If I have to do a beach landing I'll replace the rifle front liners with the faction's marine equivalent. If the mech group looks like it'll have a rough fight in a distant city objective I'll consider sending them with a motorized paratrooper. If fighting in heavy jungle with lots of harassing units as in Burma I'll try to also have some commando units that can clear the snipers and bunkers.

Because the groups are designed to work together as part of an overall operational plan, I can spend fairly minimal amounts of time in setup. I look for the terrain I know they'll excel in and then plop them down on the route through the mission with the greatest share of that terrain. They then move through the mission with their group fighting as a unit.

I hope that helps both explain my concept and give you a decent idea of how I end up with diverse unit groups.

[Lykurgos]

Thanking you for the offer, I have a couple game mechanics questions after returning to play with a several year break.

Q1. When using the 'next unit' key to cycle through units it appears that on the second cycle / second selection of any damaged unit an automatic repair action is taken. This prevents use of the unit and consumes prestige points.

Is there any way to prevent this other than non-use of the next / previous unit commands?

Q2. Is there a way to preview unit hex movement speeds *before* purchase? I have not found it and regret some purchase decisions (slow tactical bombers) as a result :-)

[Grendel88]

I am sure Moca Loca has a better answer for this, but i've found that clicking on a unit in the purchase window and mousing on an off the units considered will usually reveal a more detailed panel somewhere on your screen at some point, with all the details. Sometimes there is also an "i" in a circle you can click to see more detailed pop-ups on units. Also, for many occasions you can click a "$" on a unit you just purchased to immediately return for your money back. If I remember correctly, you can't have deployed it yet, so when considering a purchase, you should "purchase" not "purchase and deploy" as a habit, and make sure you are buying units you can currently supply in your scenario. Best I can do, hope that helps. Lets see what Moca says....

[Grendel88]

Originally posted by moca loca:

I've mentioned this in a couple places, but I tend to work with the concept that my overall "army" is compromised of various battle groups. So instead of an amorphous blob I'll have a mech group and a rifle group or two. I tend to name them after divisions and tell scale to go hang personally, but group works just fine.

As a note here I'll refer to cover. Each terrain tile has a cover percent between 0 and 100. This acts as a modifier on the stats of units. If you see in the detailed stats view that a unit has two values in a particular stat square, the value on the left is the 0% cover and the value on the right is the 100% value. Most terrain is in the 0-60% range, with only cities and a couple of the roughest terrain types hitting the 80-100% range. So if a unit has 9@0% and 4@100%, in 50% cover it will have 6 or 7. Check the terrain, think about how you'll be using a unit and you'll have a good idea whether or not you need those high cover values to be good.

The idea here is that each formation has all the tools it needs to operate independently, but that they can also support one another if needed. In addition they should be tailored to achieving particular operational objectives such as tackling large cities or jungles or forests vs moving quickly to seize key terrain or cut off the enemy or grab a distant objective. The end result is a fairly flexible army that also happens to contain a good mix of units and -- as a nice bonus -- performs well on higher difficulties.

As the names indicate the chief point of differentiation is speed. A mech group should all have units capable of moving at least at speed 6 and ideally all of them should have mech chassis due to the better offroad performance. A rifle group by contrast can get away with 2-4 speed units because they are targeting a lower speed. Mech groups tend to do well offroad and aren't dependent on cover, while rifle groups tend to need roads for the slower units and need terrain when fighting.

Given that concept, I'll usually try to have 2-3 "front line" units for any formation.

As an example for an armor group, the front line units would be 2x medium tanks and 1x combat capable recon car. Tanks and mounted infantry can't spot mines or units hidden in good cover but recon cars can, so they're critical for moving fast! In addition I'll usually want a self propelled artillery piece (which doesn't need to be particularly heavy as it'll mostly be firing at stuff in the open and lighter guns have virtually the same performance as heavy in that situation), a self propelled ATG and ideally an engineer and heavy weapons infantry (both of which should have mech transports). I also tend to bring SPAA, but only if I think I'm going to be outgunned in the air (so mandatory in the Soviet campaign but unnecessary in the UK campaign). AT guns are important because a mech group tends to run into enemy armor and the reaction fire from the ATG in support of any unit that gets attacked next to them is a massive boost to armor combat performance, especially against heavier tanks. The eng is there because 7 shock damage and a big hit to efficiency are excellent for taking towns by coup de main and the HW is there in case we need to hold ground or to follow up in attacks by the engineer. The downside of this group is the cost. Any losses are extremely expensive because tanks have a high base cost and with veterancy it only gets worse. So whenever possible I avoid meatgrinder scenarios with them and try to look for ways to envelop and destroy the enemy with them.

Meanwhile in a rifle group the frontliners should all be cheap rifle infantry. Since they lack combat power on their own their mission is typically to hang out in front of the artillery in rough or wooded terrain and act as meat shields until the enemy is softened up enough for them to attack. I will usually give them AA (if the campaign warrants) and AT that have 2 movement without a transport. If an ATG is available that can also fire as artillery it is an instant purchase for an rifle group! In addition I will usually give them the heaviest artillery piece available. And if after fully equipping them in this manner I still have points available I will try to give them a heavier tank (Matilda, KV1, SU/ISU-152) especially if that tank can also fire as artillery. It might be best to think of them as artillery parks with attached infantry! The advantage of this formation is that it is very cheap to maintain. Most of your losses will be on the infantry and they can take those losses in the sort of heavy cover that artillery sucks at shooting into while their own artillery levels the enemy.

I usually also have some floating units that can be assigned to a particular group based on need. For example if I think a rifle group is going to run into a bunch of mines I'll send them along with an engineer. If I have to do a beach landing I'll replace the rifle front liners with the faction's marine equivalent. If the mech group looks like it'll have a rough fight in a distant city objective I'll consider sending them with a motorized paratrooper. If fighting in heavy jungle with lots of harassing units as in Burma I'll try to also have some commando units that can clear the snipers and bunkers.

Because the groups are designed to work together as part of an overall operational plan, I can spend fairly minimal amounts of time in setup. I look for the terrain I know they'll excel in and then plop them down on the route through the mission with the greatest share of that terrain. They then move through the mission with their group fighting as a unit.

I hope that helps both explain my concept and give you a decent idea of how I end up with diverse unit groups.

Thanks bro. Awesome tips. Will put into practice and come back to share my progress with you....

[oddball]

Originally posted by Lykurgos:

Thanking you for the offer, I have a couple game mechanics questions after returning to play with a several year break.

Q1. When using the 'next unit' key to cycle through units it appears that on the second cycle / second selection of any damaged unit an automatic repair action is taken. This prevents use of the unit and consumes prestige points.

Bug report on the official forums!

Is there any way to prevent this other than non-use of the next / previous unit commands?

Q2. Is there a way to preview unit hex movement speeds *before* purchase? I have not found it and regret some purchase decisions (slow tactical bombers) as a result :-)

Yes! The unit browser has detailed stats from the game files for every unit

http://mfendek.byethost16.com/?i=1

Highly recommend giving it a shot

[oddball]

Originally posted by Grendel88:

Thanks bro. Awesome tips. Will put into practice and come back to share my progress with you....

Good luck!

[LarryP]

Amazing site! Moca Loca, thanks for your help. Your advice is amazing and much appreciated.

[oddball]

Originally posted by LarryP:

Amazing site! Moca Loca, thanks for your help. Your advice is amazing and much appreciated.

Thanks and glad to hear it!

[oddball]

Originally posted by Games:

Hi moca. I am currently playing Red Storm which takes place at the latest stage of the conflict. The Wehrmacht units I am facing are vetted. And I have to start with fresh ones.

Generally you’re expected to import your core from the prior campaign. If you haven’t done that you’ll have to play a more cautious style focused on efficiency damage until you’ve vetted your units up.

Your best bet is to keep your infantry in cover and backed by ATG and your armor out of cover and backed by an SPAT. Just because a unit can attack does not mean it should attack. Artillery is the main way you’ll get around units that outperform your own.

In the last mission, I had to deal with a 4 star tiger. And its not like there is less units to compensate. There is a lot. There are vetted planes, vetted tanks, vetted infantry.

Which mission do you mean here? If you give me a specific mission name I’ll play through it with the default core and post an AAR explaining what I did, why I did it and how I knew what to do.

I remember attacking with my fighter that had 10 strength vs an enemy fighter that had 1 strength. It didn't go down! I was like REALLY?!

The game gives you fairly concrete combat predictions with at most a +1/-1 difference. In addition air units that are on low strength have substantially increased durability to make it tougher to wipe them all out.

AA is generally your best bet for dealing with strong enemy fighters. It will do substantial damage for free with zero reinforce cost.

So when you say that you beat the campaigns in hardest diffuculty. That same tiger with 4 star, and 14 strength??? REALLY?!

Yeah and I have several replays here and on the official forums showing how.

BTW it’s 13 strength at max difficulty.

It's not just Red Storm. In Endsieg I had to deal with vetted Allies units. So how do you go about dealing with that?

Attacking enemy efficiency while managing my own, making effective use of terrain and bringing counters to threatening unit types like air or armor.

Another thing is, being stormed. Sometimes, I'll send a fighter out. And then from nowhere, it'll get taken down in ONE turn by several fighters appearing from nowhere. Bye bye unit. How does one prevent that?

This is fairly rare, but if it does happen it’s generally a clue that your planes are too weak and should be hiding near massed AA or simply not deployed.

The initial Nazi Invasion of the USSR mission is a good example of a scenario where planes can honestly be a bit of a liability and dense AA cover is essential. You can make them work but it really requires good knowledge of the game mechanics.

BTW it’s usually pretty cheap to replace a crap fighter. Losing units isn’t the end of the world.

If you are new or inexperienced I would strongly recommend starting with the first campaign in the Soviet or Nazi trilogy and working through that first before jumping into the late war content which is usually a good bit more challenging.

[ksivic]

i cant get past OOB red steel mission 11
I break Manhiems relief column and drive it back , i crush the romanians and shoot down 3 supply planes but at turn 10/11 i lose ??? played on easiest level 4 times dont know what i am doing wrong?? any help

[OperationFckYouUp]

Originally posted by moca loca:

Originally posted by Games:

Hi moca. I am currently playing Red Storm which takes place at the latest stage of the conflict. The Wehrmacht units I am facing are vetted. And I have to start with fresh ones.

Generally you’re expected to import your core from the prior campaign. If you haven’t done that you’ll have to play a more cautious style focused on efficiency damage until you’ve vetted your units up.

Your best bet is to keep your infantry in cover and backed by ATG and your armor out of cover and backed by an SPAT. Just because a unit can attack does not mean it should attack. Artillery is the main way you’ll get around units that outperform your own.

In the last mission, I had to deal with a 4 star tiger. And its not like there is less units to compensate. There is a lot. There are vetted planes, vetted tanks, vetted infantry.

Which mission do you mean here? If you give me a specific mission name I’ll play through it with the default core and post an AAR explaining what I did, why I did it and how I knew what to do.

I remember attacking with my fighter that had 10 strength vs an enemy fighter that had 1 strength. It didn't go down! I was like REALLY?!

The game gives you fairly concrete combat predictions with at most a +1/-1 difference. In addition air units that are on low strength have substantially increased durability to make it tougher to wipe them all out.

AA is generally your best bet for dealing with strong enemy fighters. It will do substantial damage for free with zero reinforce cost.

So when you say that you beat the campaigns in hardest diffuculty. That same tiger with 4 star, and 14 strength??? REALLY?!

Yeah and I have several replays here and on the official forums showing how.

BTW it’s 13 strength at max difficulty.

It's not just Red Storm. In Endsieg I had to deal with vetted Allies units. So how do you go about dealing with that?

Attacking enemy efficiency while managing my own, making effective use of terrain and bringing counters to threatening unit types like air or armor.

Another thing is, being stormed. Sometimes, I'll send a fighter out. And then from nowhere, it'll get taken down in ONE turn by several fighters appearing from nowhere. Bye bye unit. How does one prevent that?

This is fairly rare, but if it does happen it’s generally a clue that your planes are too weak and should be hiding near massed AA or simply not deployed.

The initial Nazi Invasion of the USSR mission is a good example of a scenario where planes can honestly be a bit of a liability and dense AA cover is essential. You can make them work but it really requires good knowledge of the game mechanics.

BTW it’s usually pretty cheap to replace a crap fighter. Losing units isn’t the end of the world.

If you are new or inexperienced I would strongly recommend starting with the first campaign in the Soviet or Nazi trilogy and working through that first before jumping into the late war content which is usually a good bit more challenging.

I'm currently stuck at Zhitomor Fastov in Red steel. Vetted units and wayyyy to many to deal with them with artillery. Let me see you do it on the hardest difficulty.

[oddball]

Originally posted by Games:

I'm currently stuck at Zhitomor Fastov in Red steel. Vetted units and wayyyy to many to deal with them with artillery. Let me see you do it on the hardest difficulty.

Not on the campaign tree? http://www.slitherine.com/forum/download/file.php?id=73265

If you can point it on here I'll definitely work my way to it and post a replay. Unfortunately I don't have all my saves for the Soviets like I do for some of the newer scenarios, but I do have one from Kharkov 42 that I can carry forward.

[oddball]

Originally posted by ksivic:

i cant get past OOB red steel mission 11
I break Manhiems relief column and drive it back , i crush the romanians and shoot down 3 supply planes but at turn 10/11 i lose ??? played on easiest level 4 times dont know what i am doing wrong?? any help

Ok, so I'm pretty sure you're playing this mission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJlRLHqeA0k&list=PL7pXN3Gjr_ax2xsVIQAx8ITtGYmZOc7Jz&index=29

The key element here is not letting any of the relief units get anywhere into the Gumrak Perimeter. If they do, you lose. That means even if a 1str tank gets into there and opens a line all the way through you're done.

[oddball]

Originally posted by ksivic:

i cant get past OOB red steel mission 11
I break Manhiems relief column and drive it back , i crush the romanians and shoot down 3 supply planes but at turn 10/11 i lose ??? played on easiest level 4 times dont know what i am doing wrong?? any help

I just played through this mission again https://i.imgur.com/nHCaosF.png

and I'm honestly not sure what would cause you to lose on turn 11 other than letting the AI open a route to the 6th Army. Even a solo yolo guy can do this.

The other possibility is that you lost Stalingrad. I can't remember if that's an instant loss condition but it'd make sense? Sending some air to support the defenders for a few turns can make a big difference on that one.