OOB WWII General Newbie Questions

[syzygy2323]

Greetings OOB Players:

I"m a new player, around 50 hours in.

I like this game. However, there is a lot of depth going on here that isn't covered in the manual. I'm going to have a lot of questions for other players, and rather than start a seperate thread for each one, why not have them all right here?

Looks like the cruiser class ship has a cargo slot, but I can't load my towed artillery piece into it at port. What's the trick there?

[syzygy2323]

Excellent, thanks again for sharing your knowledge of this game. Between you and the colonel most of my newbie questions have been answered. The efficiency score is quite easy to understand, and I understand the RP system fully now.

Speaking of the RP system, there's one little quirk to RP management that I think is useful, and that is to reinforce your core units just as a given mission is ending, that way they don't show up damaged in the force pool in the next mission. It can be problematic when they do.

Other than that, it seems that an RP point is an RP point whenever you choose to use them.

Speaking of damaged units, I haven't found a way to reinforce units when they're on their transports. Am I simply not seeing another tiny button somewhere? LOL

On another note: the AI in this game is pretty d*mned imaginative. I'm playing the 3rd scenario of the Boot Camp Campaign for the fourth time, and the AI has only played the same way on 2 of the 4 times. Meaning, 3 out of 4 times the AI is doing something different.

[cool]

You are correct: there is no difference when you choose to use RPs (again something that is different from Panzer Corps). However, there is a thing to consider: upgrading. When upgrading a damaged unit, you only pay for regular replacements thus getting elite replacements for free (upgrading always brings the health back to full). That's why towards the end of a scenario I try not to repair units and only do that in the deployment screen of the next scenario. If there is a useful upgrade available I take it and save some RPs. If not, nothing is lost.

You cannot repair units on transports so no hidden buttons this time. :-)

I agree, the AI is quite good compared to some other games. When you add the randomizing of certain units to that, it sure adds replayability imo.

[syzygy2323]

I haven't explored ungrading yet. I once upgraded a marine raiders unit to regular marines, that's all I've done. I think you're saying that I shouldn't repair a unit that I know I'm going to upgrade?

Let's talk about submarines:

I used sonar to detect a submerged enemy submarine, but I can't get my destroyers to attack it. I can't move my destroyers into the submarines hex--the hex is greyed out--and there is no option to attack it from an adjacent hex.

[cool]

Originally posted by syzygy2323:

I haven't explored ungrading yet. I once upgraded a marine raiders unit to regular marines, that's all I've done. I think you're saying that I shouldn't repair a unit that I know I'm going to upgrade?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Upgrading is not much (at all?) used in Boot Camp, but for all the DLCs it is very important. You have yearly upgrades for most infantry units and armored vehicles and aircraft often have better models available when time passes.

You can only attack a submerged enemy submarine by using sonar. So only destroyers which are within two hexes of it and have not yet moved.

[syzygy2323]

Kay, got it.

Ah, it's that 'not yet moved' part I didn't know!

So it takes two destroyers minimum to hunt submarines, oned to ping and another one in the vicinity already, waiting to attack?

[cool]

Even with one you can attack, but the more the better. Each one has to ping the sub prior to attacking and therefore be within the range of two hexes. The attacks are quite powerful so typically two is enough to make the sub harmless and a third one sinks it.

[syzygy2323]

I guess I'm not watching carefully enough, because it seems to me that once I use the sonar on a destroyer, that ends the turn for the destroyer. You're telling me that a destroyer can ping and then attack a submarine all in the same turn, but it's not allowed to move to do so? Again, I'm probably not watching closely.

Let's talk about cruisers:

I was unable to land a recon airplane on my cruiser, while the cruiser was at sea or in port. I've never heard of a cruiser-class ship being able to launch/land aircraft so if this feat was actually pulled off in the real world, then I'm going to be learning s'more WWII history as well as how to play this game.

[Colonel Ragman]

Hey there,

got no time right now, but wanted to leave you that video as a starting point regarding catapult-launched Seaplanes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao6TYEsuKo0

[syzygy2323]

What a beautiful thing--and imagine the testicular fortitude of the first pilot to try that technology.

But lets talk about landing! I seem to recall that these craft would ditch into the sea next to the seacraft after their mission and they'de rescue the pilot. An expensive way to gather information, if it's true.

I was able to ping and attack a submarine with a single destroyer all in the same turn. So, that question is answered. But is it true that if a submarine doesn't move or attack during its turn then it can't be detected via sonar?

[syzygy2323]

Thanks again Colonel for the video.

More questions:

Someone on the slitherine forum made up an app for comparing unit statistics. It's a nifty piece of work! I was using said app to compare stats between tanks and noticed another sweet little complexity in OOB called 'close attack value.' The definition of close attack value is 'the higher the cover of the battlefield the closer is the attack value to the close attack value.' A cryptic-at-best explanation. I can't find any other information about this stat.

I've tried puzzling this out and I'm at a loss. Sometimes the close attack value is higher than the attack value, sometimes it's lower. It seems to suggest that some units get a bonus when fighting enemy units with good cover versus no cover--entirely backwards, in short. I don't get it.

[syzygy2323]

Another quick Q:

When looking at unit statistics, do pillboxs count as vehicles or as infantry?

[cool]

Originally posted by syzygy2323:

But lets talk about landing! I seem to recall that these craft would ditch into the sea next to the seacraft after their mission and they'de rescue the pilot. An expensive way to gather information, if it's true.

Well, they had floats so they landed next to the ship and were then recovered (like here[i.imgur.com]). No need to ditch the plane. Japanese Tone-class cruisers had five aircraft so they were quite useful as the eyes of the fleet.

Originally posted by syzygy2323:

But is it true that if a submarine doesn't move or attack during its turn then it can't be detected via sonar?

Yes, that should be the case.

[cool]

Originally posted by syzygy2323:

I've tried puzzling this out and I'm at a loss. Sometimes the close attack value is higher than the attack value, sometimes it's lower. It seems to suggest that some units get a bonus when fighting enemy units with good cover versus no cover--entirely backwards, in short. I don't get it.

It is actually quite logical. Typically infantry is better in close terrain (forests, towns, jungle etc.) than armoured vehicles which rule the open terrain (farmland, open, desert etc.). Think for instance the bogace in Normandy which is a prime example of a close terrain. You never know where the guy with Panzerfaust is hiding before it literally hits you...

Originally posted by syzygy2323:

When looking at unit statistics, do pillboxs count as vehicles or as infantry?

They belong to structures, but use the att/def values of infantry.

[syzygy2323]

Ah, 'close' means 'close terrain.' The stats make sense now. Thanks for explaining that one. I just couldn't figure it out.

So both the Japanese and the Americans had float-plane-launch-capable cruiser ships, and the airplane would return to the cruiser, land on the water, and then the ship would use a crane arm to recover the airplane. Nifty. Got it. That picture you attached tells the story.

I'll try again to land a float-plane on or next to a cruiser. I tried it once and I didn't get the 'land' icon to appear in the airplanes' activity box area, but, I probably wasn't watching closely enough.

IDK, cool, a submarine running silent could and can still be detected by active sonar. Running silently defeated passive sonar, which listened for engines and guys banging equipment around reloading torpedoes, but as far as my understanding goes, there was and is no defense against active sonar.

But, the gameplay facet of a sub being undetectable for a turn or two reflects, I think, how difficult it is to locate an enemy that can't be seen and has three dimensions to hide in. My game-submarine was destroyed immediately the first time I tried to use it, in Boot Camp, and I wrote them off right then and there, but I think they have a place in a fleet to finish off damaged ships perhaps? To use them offensively would probably require a whole bunch of them, i.e. a Doenitz Wolf Pack?

Submarines can't be made to stay submerged for more than three turns?

[cool]

True, you can't escape active sonar irl, but I suppose here it is a gameplay facet like you wrote. Subs are not very good in OoB. They are better now than in the early versions of the game, but are still quite ineffective. They are so slow when submerged that I use them on surface most of the time (yes, it is a bit risky). They can only be spotted by adjacent units which actually helps a lot if you can make correct assumptions of the course of the enemy ships. If not on the other hand...

You better buy other ships than subs. I usually deploy only a single sub (in Kriegsmarine I had three).

Yes, subs can stay submerged only three turns, except the German Type XXI U-boats, which have five turns "endurance".