What we were expecting, what you gave us

[FiauraTheTankGirl]

So what we were expecting was panzer corps covered in Warhammer Juice with maybe slight modifications to include different attack types and maybe different ranges.
Which would have been absolutely fine and wonderful.

What we got, was something that doesn't make any sense at all, mechanically and in some cases universe wise.

Universe so far:
What you Said: Exterminatus means destruction of the whole planet.
What you meant to say: Excutus means the excution of a single officer.

Mechanical Problems:
1. Shootas and Lasguns hurt tanks? You're kidding right?
2. Infantry are mostly unless except you have to have them to capture objectives in areas vehicles can't move in. They die way too easily and cost too much for what you get out of them.
3. You can have infinite numbers of units that should be highly restricted (Titans, Marines, etc.)
4. There appears to be no real form of suppression, no matter how bad the moral is, a unit still fights back with just about has much as it had with full moral it seems.
5. Experience does what now?
6. Where is my reinforce with Experienced Troops Button? This would be the only way to keep experience and keep units alive in most cases.
7. Why do you get so very little prestige in the first two acts? I mean you really do get next to nothing to work with if a unit dies and they have a high mortality rate.
8. Cover seems to only work when it wants to, you can reload an enemy autosave and get completely different results with units being attacked in 50% fortifications. Sometime just watching Orks roll up and wipe out full strength 4+ skull infantry in a fortification and others doing 0 damage. - So your RNG generator is a bit on the extremes.
9. You are limited to very very small number of units compared to the enemy.
10. You want me to hold out for how long at the end of act 1? 15 turns? And I'm just going to replace all of these units I've worked so hard to keep alive? Why did I work so hard to keep them alive if they are just being replaced and their experience they earned is now pointless?
11. Where are the elite guard troops? With the hellguns?

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

In short, I'd ask for my money back if you would give it back to me.

[Deskath]

Well ork weapons CAN glance with an ass-shot... lasguns not so much :D on the other hand hurting a baneblade with non-heavy weapons is impossible :P

[Stalindlrp]

true
though i can understand it from a balance standpoint

[Ant]

Why focus on their main weapon, all types of infantry can carry wargear that can make mincemeat of tank armour....melta bombs etc..Or even scuttle the tank and rip open hatches and throw in normal nades.

[Susurrus]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Slitherine_Iain:

A lot of people struggling with the game are expecting it to play like PzC but it doesn't. The game mechanics are very different and you have to learn a completely new way to play. While some of the unit balance may not be right yet, I absolutely disagree with some of the statements made about design. The aim never was to create an accurate replication of the tabletop system, just to capture the feel, so the kind of units have the same kind of roles as in the lore.

Saying light units should never hurt a medium tank is my opinion a disastrous game design approach. Having units that can't hurt each other at all is terrible for game design and balance. You can't argue it from a lore or realism point of view. From a realism point of view look at the real world - even a light infantry unit without anti tank weapons can take out a tank if its not careful with light grenades not designed to hurt a tank or home made explosives like molotov cocktails.

The aim is to reward good tactics but not make them the only way to complete the game. If we went down this approach the only way to play would be the way we told you. Our approach was to allow everything to hurt everything but make it much more efficient to use the correct units. This is a much more fun and interesting way to play. It gives the player more options and lets the learn gradually. This is what good game design is all about.

Lets keep the discussions civil please. This is getting very heated and if it gets out of hand it will have to be locked.

One certainly CAN argue it from a lore point of view.
Try looking at the source material.

You can excuse the design decision/s for reasons of "balance" (even though balance is less important than fun and faithfulness), but you certainly cannot claim that it is at all backed by the existing lore and source material's rules.

[delfo]

If I may add my two cents. I'd wish some of the mechanics from games like the General Series made it. They did in Final liberation back in 1998, the air supprot there was like it was in People's generals while you still retained your gunships and speeders. Also if we could get some relic scavenging and assignment like in elven legend. And unit base size increase with tiers of veterency would also be nice. I think that was featured in Rites of War but it has been years since I played that.
But finaly what I have a real issue with is a lack of clarity in objectives sometimes. For example, sometimes you need to trigger some tile to get an extra text to change your objectives. Or if you trigger a tile to early you get the second part of the objective prior to you achieving the first part which then leads to a mission failed. Also there are issues with which enemy units have to be killed. A pre battle intel phase that highlights that could help a lot.

[BNTYHNTR98]

Im reading this Conversation and i cant help but think , you know you Have the ability to change the stats of any unit in the game, you can mod and change them easily and they will perform how you want them too. If you dont like what slitheren has done just go to the Mod Forums and read the posts there , there are plenty of ways to adjust Stats and make the units perform different , I wanted more armies so ive gone through and added more, hell for ♥♥♥♥♥ and laughs i even added the US MARINES , the US ARMY, And BRITISH UNITS for a what if Warhammer came to our universe or time. Its rather easy to add other stuff and change stats as long as you dig through and find the proper way to add and change the abilities. Ive added the above for fun but to complete and add other Warhammer 40k Armies ive added the following too to my options:

Tau
Dark Eldar
Grey Knights
Cadian Imperial Guard
Necrons
Sisters Of Battle
Chaos

You just have to find art make them 256x256 and you can do pretty much anything you want , didnt take me long. So I look at it as Slitheren has given me a box of legos to play with in my favorite universe its all about how i play with them and build with them that determins my enjoyment. Ive gotten everything i wanted from this , and im sure as they release expansions wich are sure to come ill be able to mod and change what i want as well, I cant say that your not allowed to be displeased with what your were given , im just saying , take a few breaths , look at what you were given and explore all the options before you throw it in the trash.

[F.O.A.D.]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BNTYHNTR98:

You just have to find art make them 256x256 and you can do pretty much anything you want , didnt take me long. So I look at it as Slitheren has given me a box of legos to play with in my favorite universe its all about how i play with them and build with them that determins my enjoyment. Ive gotten everything i wanted from this , and im sure as they release expansions wich are sure to come ill be able to mod and change what i want as well,

Slitherine and Co. have given us the keys to a digital Games Workshop's Shipping Dept!
Unlike all the previous Warhammer games, NO unit is off limits with this engine.

[boatie]

+1 foad1978, that's why all these complaints are off the mark. We just need a few rebalance mods to come out so ppl get several options to choose from in terms of how they wants units/weapons/etc to be balanced. Btw, BNTYHNTR98, why are not not sharing your masterpiece with us?

[BNTYHNTR98]

Soon as all the bugs are worked out and i have all the units for Grey Knights and other factions I want to create, then ill throw the whole mod up there :).

[delfo]

But I still miss the scout mechanic from games like the general series. Where scout units could move several times during a turn as long as their move is not exhausted. And you can't do that. At least I haven't seen an ability that denotes that. Also you don't have the ability to change strength based on veterancy. In the generals game for every 2 pips of exp ( I might be wrong ) between missions you could add 1 size for a price. Which was an additional incentive to keep your workhorse units with high xp cause then a tank of squad size 10 turned into a vet 8 tank of squad size 14.

[delfo]

Also at the highest difficulty the game makes savescumming a way of life. Enemy sqads are boosted to 150 of normal strengths which has you dealing with waves of 3 strength super tanks and 4 strength heavy orc artilery.