Orks/IG better ranged accuracy than Space Marines? Really?

[EvilPolygons]

I like the game, don't get me wrong. But looking at the data files, Slitherine didn't even try to actually balance out a large number of the units in this game. This especially applies to vehicles. Across the board, Imperial Guard and Ork vehicles tend to have higher ranged combat accuracy than Space Marines. Like, in what edition of 40K or Epic 40K has that *ever* been a thing?

Why is Blood Angel ranged accuracy 20 points higher, across the board, than that of Ultramarines?

Why do Storm Eagles and Vulture Gunships have the "hover" movement type instead of the "fly" movement type?

I'm not kidding when I say that at least half the unit types in Armageddon have stats that are just completely out of whack with what they should be in Epic 40K or regular 40K.

And then there are the typos in the data files that gimp a great many units:
The "Recon" typo (which doesn't work) instead of "Reconmove" (which does work) trait for scouts and fast attack vehicles.
Or the Imperial Space Marine disintegration combi gun, with a range of...3-3 for the bolter component? What? Either that's a typo or whoever adapted the unit to Armageddon didn't bother looking at the original 40K stats.

Anyway, as I said, I like the game. But holy hell. Whoever wrote the unit and weapon data files either can't type worth a damn, or has never actually played 40K/Epic.

[Terciperix]

I agree with you. I love this game. I have finished the main campain two times, one of which was just after my 400+ hour playthrough of Panzercorps which uses the same engine and is also a great game but with completly different mechanics and no bugs.

This game feels so rushed and unfinished and it is really sad because a lot of work was put into it and I think it is the best W40k grand strategy game available at the moment. I would love to buy new campaigns on different world with whole different new armies and equipment.

However the amount of bugs, glitches and features not working is massive. i didn't even know about the arty, the recon bugs. I felt like something was off or not working so I just dropped using scouts at some points and Titans with 4 vision range is enough. The DLC campaigns are not voiced also and repetitive due to the fact that you have little choice in terms of equipment.

As for balancing issues that is one of my biggest problems with the game. The mechanics are not clearly explained, how the exp works, how the resuisition system works everything is unclear. Sad to see that the devs have moved on, maybe the sales were not as great as they expected.

[EvilPolygons]

Armageddon reminds me a lot of Warhammer 40,000:Final Liberation from the late 1990s, which was another Epic Scale 40k game. I'm right there with you on everything you wrote. Love the game, but it's kind of a mess.

There's a Community Mod available on the Slitherine forums that balances everything according to 8th Edition tabletop rules, but the problem with that mod is that Armageddon is an EPIC scale adaptation, not an adaptation of regular 40k. So the most recent Community Mod simply doesn't feel or play like Epic 40k at all.

So I spent a few days poring over Armageddon's data files looking for bugs & balance issues, and then comparing it to official 40K Epic Scale rules/stats. Then I modded it myself to fix (or at least mitigate) the worst of the balance issues, typos, and bugs.

The developers of Armageddon were obviously trying to go for an Epic Scale feel, which is why unit strength, hit points, damage values, etc, are geared towards more drawn-out firefights than regular tabletop 40k. They just made a lot of mistakes trying to accomplish that.

You said Armageddon feels like it was rushed out the door in an unfinished state, and I totally agree with you. The fact that so many obvious typos and balance oversights are in the game's data files prove that it didn't receive a proper QA pass before release. I mean, at least one of the Ork vehicles is crippled because it is equipped with a melee-only flamer, but lacks the assault trait. The weapon itself should have been given a range of 0-1 instead of 0-0 in the first place, whether or not the vehicle has the assault trait, but without that trait the vehicle can't really use its weapon at all except for when it is defending against a melee attacker. Add to that the fact that ALL flamethrower type weapons in Armageddon should have the Siege trait, because flamers in official 40k rules NEVER miss!

I think there is another unit which has the Assault trait, but was only equipped with a ranged weapon. So while technically they can still attack at range, they're useless in their primary melee role.

The Imperial Guard flamer squad has a somewhat similar issue, in that their weapon has a 0-0 range, but at least they have the assault trait. So they can at least attack. But the weapon is supposed to have a range of 0-1, allowing them to have a round of ranged combat with their flamers *before* engaging in a follow-up round of close combat. Not exactly canon, but that's how it's supposed to work in Armageddon. So the IG flamer squad is literally half as effective as they should be. There are MANY such problems like that scattered around the unit & weapon data files.

My suggestion is mod what you know is obviously not right, but generally try to keep units at the same relative power level that Slitherine meant them to be at. Some units will end up being a bit stronger after fixing them, but some will be a bit weaker, so ultimately you'll end up with a good game balance because at least everything will actually work.

For example, I nerfed most of the Blood Angel units' melee/ranged skills down to what the Ultramarine skills are by default, but also lowered their points cost to match the Ultramarines, as well. Unique, chapter-specific units I tweaked on an individual basis, but still kept things balanced according to what Slitherine wanted Armageddon to be; more like Epic than regular 40k. I also beefed up flyers to match official Games Workshop rules, and reenabled their Reconmove traits. Flying vehicles in official 40k don't actually have stellar ranged skill, however, so while they are actually worth using in Armageddon now due to their improved survivability and utility, their lethality is kept in check by mediocre shooting skill.

In the end, after modding it, everything is more or less "canon" in regards to official Epic Scale 40k, but Armageddon still "feels" like Armageddon...just without as many glaring bugs and balance problems.

[sarrowquand]

How do I get the Epic re-balance mod?

[EvilPolygons]

Originally posted by sarrowquand:

How do I get the Epic re-balance mod?

The Epic-scale rebalancing mod mentioned above is just a personal mod of mine. I haven't released it because frankly I don't want to have to deal with the headache of supporting a public mod.

However, if you want the Community Mod (w/ 8th Edition table top rules), you can find that on Slitherine's official Armageddon forum. It isn't my cup of tea, but the author of that mod is VERY good about keeping it updated, providing technical support, etc.

[Cyber Diver]

MOAR DAKKA = BETTA CHANCE TA HIT

[Mandellorian]

The only reason to buy any Slitherine game is to have a base for the mods you are going to go get. They have proven repeatedly to be distressingly clueless when it comes to the IP..and GW a company infamously protective of "Its" IP..even the the stuff they "borrowed" don`t seem to care about how bad the games being put out are. Fortunately there are some extremely talented modders out there that can fix even this.

[General Coma]

Originally posted by EvilPolygons:

I like the game, don't get me wrong. But looking at the data files, Slitherine didn't even try to actually balance out a large number of the units in this game. This especially applies to vehicles. Across the board, Imperial Guard and Ork vehicles tend to have higher ranged combat accuracy than Space Marines. Like, in what edition of 40K or Epic 40K has that *ever* been a thing?

My guess is the developers used unit stats to try to "encourage" you to use certain unit types with certain armies. Like they wanted you to use more tanks with the IG, since that is their strongpoint in the lore and they wanted you to use more infantry with Space Marines, since using massive tank formations isn't something Space Marines do in the lore.

That's the only semi-reasonable explanation I can come up with.