Nitpicks with Atelier Yumia gameplay

[HeroSusRage68]

Honestly, the more I play Atelier Yumia, the more nitpicks and issues I have with the game. For starters, it probably not a good idea to binge through an open world game so heavily and just play it non stop for hours but that might be just me.

It's mainly gameplay stuff. I honestly don't like how Gust designed some of the open world. It just feels like a maze to get to certain areas and it's so frustrating. I really like how some huge open-world games like Horizon and Xenoblade X has a navigator that exactly tell you where to go next in the open world, and I feel like Atelier Yumia needs that even more. I never found Atelier maps convoluted, but I think they overdid the map complexity in Yumia.

Also, I find it annoying how you can't complete certain side quests without having a blueprint to build a certain piece of furniture to complete it. The thing is, the game absolutely does not tell you where to find it. And because the game is still new, looking things up online doesn't give all of the answers you need. You need to do the same thing for the ingredients, but honestly, that is always a thing you need to do for Atelier.

As for alchemy. I understand why old Atelier fans don't really like it. The animation sequences eat up a lot of time, plus things as been so simplified, that things like quality or what traits it has doesn't even matter at all. Unlike past games when what you created mattered if you wanted to complete a quest. I still think there is depth with its alchemy system, thanks to the mana and resonance mechanics. But I think the depth only really exist to create stronger equipment, and you can do that very early on in the game if you want. Otherwise, I have to agree with the longtime fans here. Alchemy has definitely taken a backseat in Yumia, even if I don't dislike it.

Combat is still fun to me. It feels very Tales Of like with the action RPG. It is very button mashy and I think I prefer what Gust was going for in Ryza with the ATB system since it felt like a nice mix between Yumia and classic Atelier. But IMO, combat is like the one thing Gust never truly messed up on, no matter what.

Really though, Yumia's biggest flaw is it just lacks so many quality of life elements that exploring the world can just feel stressful and a huge headache and that has never been the case for Atelier at all before. Plus it doesn't help that some of its mechanics are barely explained. And we all aware of the performance and texture issues. Ngl, but I think Gust needs to let Yumia cook for a few more months. Game feels kinda rushed out atm.

I got my nitpicks with the story and the mood as well but that will be a separate post since honestly, I am running out of time here and this post is long enough as it is.

[moshiwakeda]

If they had a 3d map that you could move vertically, that would have helped. Currently the flat 2d map is just a pain in the ass for finding stuff

[Fals]

I disagree. I do not find the open world complicated at all. I have never had any difficulty in finding my way to my destination. For Particles and main quests, you absolutely do have a navigator trail that shows you exactly which route to take. As for exploration things such as chests, you can look at the minimap. If the icon is faded, that means it is either below you or above you. Start climbing up or going down and see if the icon starts to get brighter, then you know which direction it is in.

Blueprints for stuff like furniture for pioneer progress in not hidden. If you don't have it, continue the main story quests. You'll eventually get them through them. I can't remember if any were ever in a Treasure Trove. I don't think so, but if they are, they're marked on the map.

Synthesis animations can be skipped. The "traits" themselves actually do matter. They're called effects. Sure, you can get by without worrying too much about them, but they do make a huge difference if you actually pay attention to them. The way it works is, you want to use basic materials with things like resonance bonuses and quality up when making synthesis items (such as Ingots and Cloth). Then you use the Ingots and/or Cloth to synthesize your Weapons and Armor. Ingots boost attack, Cloth boosts defense. You also have specific synthesis items with "Boost" on them that are used in the forge to add even more effects/traits. Then you have the trait crystals themselves. It really ends up being the same stuff from older Atelier games, just split up into parts and simplified. Mainly because you don't have to worry about Costs.

Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinion, and I understand where they're coming from. I am an Atelier fan and own literally every single Atelier game. I even just recently played through the Arland series last month before Yumia came out. Yumia has a lot of similarities to the older Atelier games, but it also does a lot of things differently. It's basically what Breath of the Wild was to Zelda fans when it came out. They either loved it or hated it. I very much enjoy exploration in Yumia, and it gives me Breath of the Wild vibes. You even literally complete mini shrine puzzles to get points to spend on upgrades.

[HeroSusRage68]

Originally posted by Fals:

I disagree. I do not find the open world complicated at all. I have never had any difficulty in finding my way to my destination. For Particles and main quests, you absolutely do have a navigator trail that shows you exactly which route to take. As for exploration things such as chests, you can look at the minimap. If the icon is faded, that means it is either below you or above you. Start climbing up or going down and see if the icon starts to get brighter, then you know which direction it is in.

Blueprints for stuff like furniture for pioneer progress in not hidden. If you don't have it, continue the main story quests. You'll eventually get them through them. I can't remember if any were ever in a Treasure Trove. I don't think so, but if they are, they're marked on the map.

Synthesis animations can be skipped. The "traits" themselves actually do matter. They're called effects. Sure, you can get by without worrying too much about them, but they do make a huge difference if you actually pay attention to them. The way it works is, you want to use basic materials with things like resonance bonuses and quality up when making synthesis items (such as Ingots and Cloth). Then you use the Ingots and/or Cloth to synthesize your Weapons and Armor. Ingots boost attack, Cloth boosts defense. You also have specific synthesis items with "Boost" on them that are used in the forge to add even more effects/traits. Then you have the trait crystals themselves. It really ends up being the same stuff from older Atelier games, just split up into parts and simplified. Mainly because you don't have to worry about Costs.

Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinion, and I understand where they're coming from. I am an Atelier fan and own literally every single Atelier game. I even just recently played through the Arland series last month before Yumia came out. Yumia has a lot of similarities to the older Atelier games, but it also does a lot of things differently. It's basically what Breath of the Wild was to Zelda fans when it came out. They either loved it or hated it. I very much enjoy exploration in Yumia, and it gives me Breath of the Wild vibes. You even literally complete mini shrine puzzles to get points to spend on upgrades.

I never really thought about Yumia being the Breath of the Wild of Atelier and it makes a lot of sense on why people are so mixed on the game, especially the long time fans.

To clarify, I meant to say traits don't matter as far as synthesizing items for quests. So far, as long you make them, it's good enough. While in past games, an item needed to reach certain conditions (such as how high the quality is). It just creates an impression that alchemy matters less in Yumia.

There is a lot I still like about Yumia. I still enjoy the alchemy as a whole. I just find some of the exploration frustrating. Like I wish there was an easier way to find blueprints rather than guessing around and trying to figure out where each specific blueprint is at.

[Fals]

Originally posted by HeroSusRage68:

I never really thought about Yumia being the Breath of the Wild of Atelier and it makes a lot of sense on why people are so mixed on the game, especially the long time fans.

To clarify, I meant to say traits don't matter as far as synthesizing items for quests. So far, as long you make them, it's good enough. While in past games, an item needed to reach certain conditions (such as how high the quality is). It just creates an impression that alchemy matters less in Yumia.

There is a lot I still like about Yumia. I still enjoy the alchemy as a whole. I just find some of the exploration frustrating. Like I wish there was an easier way to find blueprints rather than guessing around and trying to figure out where each specific blueprint is at.

Ah, yeah. I think that's what the quick synthesis bare minimum option is for. As far as Alchemy not being as big of a thing in this series, to be fair, Alchemy is taboo/forbidden. The game is definitely rough around the edges and I wish it did some things a bit better. It's so close to being great at certain things. Like, in the older games, you could hover over the areas to see what monsters were there and what materials you could gather. I ran out of Kong Plates early on (not a problem once you reach the next region) and I couldn't remember exactly where I saw that giant ape monster. I open the help book menu and go to monsters and see it there. You can add it to "tracking" but it never marked it on the map. I'm not sure if that tracking is for tracking when you kill the monster or like a proximity thing, but I really wish it'd just tell me where I could find that specific monster. I wish we could skip the post combat twirl thing, but I read in an update that they plan on introducing that in a later patch. And again, for blueprints, I really think you get all of the ones needed for pioneer quests from the story quests. I don't remember ever having to scan a memory vial for one. Nor have I had to buy it from an NPC. Now, for items, armor, and weapon blueprints, those definitely come from chests. Mostly in treasure troves. You also need to make sure you craft (or find) the synthesis items required for some of them to unlock.

I'm over 60 hours into Yumia and I'm still barely in the third region. Most of the older Atelier games lasted around 30 hours for me. People argue about them adding certain things to pad out the play time, but as I've said before, I enjoy exploring. It's definitely not a bad game as some people like to suggest. It's just different, and I understand where they're coming from that it wasn't what they were expecting. In my opinion, it's a billion times better than the overly monetized gacha that was Atelier Resleriana, that they just shut down (the global version).

[WeissRook]

Originally posted by Fals:

Originally posted by HeroSusRage68:

I never really thought about Yumia being the Breath of the Wild of Atelier and it makes a lot of sense on why people are so mixed on the game, especially the long time fans.

To clarify, I meant to say traits don't matter as far as synthesizing items for quests. So far, as long you make them, it's good enough. While in past games, an item needed to reach certain conditions (such as how high the quality is). It just creates an impression that alchemy matters less in Yumia.

There is a lot I still like about Yumia. I still enjoy the alchemy as a whole. I just find some of the exploration frustrating. Like I wish there was an easier way to find blueprints rather than guessing around and trying to figure out where each specific blueprint is at.

Ah, yeah. I think that's what the quick synthesis bare minimum option is for. As far as Alchemy not being as big of a thing in this series, to be fair, Alchemy is taboo/forbidden. The game is definitely rough around the edges and I wish it did some things a bit better. It's so close to being great at certain things. Like, in the older games, you could hover over the areas to see what monsters were there and what materials you could gather. I ran out of Kong Plates early on (not a problem once you reach the next region) and I couldn't remember exactly where I saw that giant ape monster. I open the help book menu and go to monsters and see it there. You can add it to "tracking" but it never marked it on the map. I'm not sure if that tracking is for tracking when you kill the monster or like a proximity thing, but I really wish it'd just tell me where I could find that specific monster. I wish we could skip the post combat twirl thing, but I read in an update that they plan on introducing that in a later patch. And again, for blueprints, I really think you get all of the ones needed for pioneer quests from the story quests. I don't remember ever having to scan a memory vial for one. Nor have I had to buy it from an NPC. Now, for items, armor, and weapon blueprints, those definitely come from chests. Mostly in treasure troves. You also need to make sure you craft (or find) the synthesis items required for some of them to unlock.

I'm over 60 hours into Yumia and I'm still barely in the third region. Most of the older Atelier games lasted around 30 hours for me. People argue about them adding certain things to pad out the play time, but as I've said before, I enjoy exploring. It's definitely not a bad game as some people like to suggest. It's just different, and I understand where they're coming from that it wasn't what they were expecting. In my opinion, it's a billion times better than the overly monetized gacha that was Atelier Resleriana, that they just shut down (the global version).

I know for pioneering progress quest (not to be confused with the main line quests that say Pioneering in them), there were at least a couple blueprints in those treasure vaults. I found out because I followed a specific 'build x' one and it led me to the vault the blueprint was in. If it doesn't lead anywhere, it's likely a quest reward from one of the mainline Pionnering quest chains. It was so frustrating that in the last area, you need Pioneering quests done in order to be able to build the items needed for the Pioneering progress... which you then need to complete to get the blueprint to finish off a '!' mission on the final map too.

[Shrinkshooter]

The confusing nature of some map areas is mostly because the FOV is ridiculously bad. You're looking through a paper towel tube at the world. It's very easy to lose sight of the "big picture" of your surroundings because you see so little of it at once, and you can only look up or down so far (aiming alleviates this somewhat but zooms in, so not great).

Yes synthing is garbage in this game. It takes no thinking or strategy, just try to maximize radius or quality and you're good to go. Manually crafting something, therefore, is tedious and not engaging, but unless you're willing to risk the autocrafting using your rare ingredients to save a ton of time, it will, well, cost you a ton of time. It's mindless, but if you want to minmax results, you need to do it -- although the game is so easy that minmaxing is a waste of time. In previous games if you wanted godlike items you needed to plan and think; in here, maxing an item is as mind numbing as washing dishes or folding clothes. Turn your brain off while you concentrate on a podcast in the background. That's a pretty bad indictment of a crafting system, and in my view it's almost a sin, this could barely be called Atelier.

Combat has a number of questionable decisions, Lenja being the most egregious. Even on hard most fights do not last nearly long enough to max out the mana surge guage, so you hardly ever interact with that mechanic, but in the rare cases you do, you don't want Lenja out fighting; she eats up the gauge to create the knives and delays a full gauge even further, and there's no way to disable that in party strategy.

[Fals]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

The confusing nature of some map areas is mostly because the FOV is ridiculously bad. You're looking through a paper towel tube at the world. It's very easy to lose sight of the "big picture" of your surroundings because you see so little of it at once, and you can only look up or down so far (aiming alleviates this somewhat but zooms in, so not great).

Ah yeah, I guess that makes sense. I play on an Ultrawide Monitor, so I can see quite a lot with just a glance.

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

Yes synthing is garbage in this game. It takes no thinking or strategy, just try to maximize radius or quality and you're good to go. Manually crafting something, therefore, is tedious and not engaging, but unless you're willing to risk the autocrafting using your rare ingredients to save a ton of time, it will, well, cost you a ton of time. It's mindless, but if you want to minmax results, you need to do it -- although the game is so easy that minmaxing is a waste of time. In previous games if you wanted godlike items you needed to plan and think; in here, maxing an item is as mind numbing as washing dishes or folding clothes. Turn your brain off while you concentrate on a podcast in the background. That's a pretty bad indictment of a crafting system, and in my view it's almost a sin, this could barely be called Atelier.

Again, that's not exactly true. Pretty much every trait you would want on your ultimate gear in the older Atelier games is also in this game. The difference is, it is split up between Resonance, Trait Crystals, and the Forge. It is simplified and easier to craft because there is no cost to take into consideration, but to say there is no planning required to make the best gear is disingenuous. Crafting/synthesizing isn't where the main issue lies. It's within the game's difficulty itself. It is so easy that there is no reason to put in the work and plan the most optimal way of synthesizing your gear. You can get by with just auto synth even on the hardest difficulty. That's the true sin. Also, there is an unintentional way to boost the stats of your gear by constantly rebuilding it. Which also makes it pointless to plan your synthesis if you use that. People think that will be patched out, as it should be.

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

Combat has a number of questionable decisions, Lenja being the most egregious. Even on hard most fights do not last nearly long enough to max out the mana surge guage, so you hardly ever interact with that mechanic, but in the rare cases you do, you don't want Lenja out fighting; she eats up the gauge to create the knives and delays a full gauge even further, and there's no way to disable that in party strategy.

If you don't make your gear over powered and play on the hardest difficulty, it is very easy to max out the mana surge gauge with Yumia by using items. The problem is, it's very easy to be overpowered, especially with the Kruger Cloak and Trait Crystals that boost Item Damage. But yes, I think that is where this game absolutely falls flat. The difficulty is waaaaaaaay to easy. Bosses don't seem to scale at all and take only a few hits to defeat compared to some enemies out in the open world (which also don't live long enough). I don't find a problem with the combat system itself, I quite enjoy it. But I wish there was an actual reason to try harder. You can simply stun the enemy and then use an item they're weak against to one shot them. Even when you hold back on doing that to try and drag the fight out so you can try and enjoy the battle, it doesn't even last ten seconds. And that's without min maxing gear. They really need to rebalance the mobs and bosses in the game. I honestly think that is the biggest issue this game has. Which is weird, because they were really sadistic with the Machina Domain DLCs in the Arland series. I remember getting to them for the first time and the difficulty ramped waaaaaaay up compared to the rest of the game. That's where you really needed to plan your build (and/or look up wikis on what others suggest, Rainbow Power, Spirit Power, Time w/e etc.) and how to go about squeezing those traits out with limited costs per item. Unless you mean Sophia's synthesis, which is also pretty different, and people argue it is the best.

But yeah, hopefully they plan on balancing the game and adding harder DLC (or even higher difficulty modes). My advice to people that aren't enjoying the game for that reason alone, put it on hold until then. Oh, also, don't use the training weights. That's a big mistake. You'll reach max level long before you're even half way through the game.

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by Fals:

but to say there is no planning required to make the best gear is disingenuous.

It is not disingenuous. Maxing out the native effects of all the cores takes no thinking: just blast a bunch of high res ingredients into the slots. The only "prep" work for that would be ensuring you have one for specific elements. If you want to stack traits from ingredients into the item like DEF or ATK (which you can only do for weapons and armor), then the only prep needed is to have plenty of high quality / high res ingots or cloth. The only thing that matters when making synthesis ingredients like the jewels or flour or distilled water etc. is quality and rank of native effects, which, again, are easily maxed by just blasting high res items into slots.

There is no complex trait inheritance with a predefined ingredient set like Ryza where you need to map out all the ingredients, and traits you want on which ones where, ahead of time. There is no puzzle matrix combined with trait inheritance and rebuilding like Sophie where you need to think ahead. The crafting is simplified and completely open ended; on top of that, ingredients are not unique, which makes crafting nothing more than "put highest quality / res in the slot". There is zero strategy.

---

And on top of the previous points, everything that isn't combat is just terribly bland. Collectathons are boring. Hunting question marks is boring because there is nothing interesting to do at any of them. The minigames / puzzles are dreadfully dull and outstay their welcome by the third time you've solved something a literal 3 year old could do (seriously, "simon says" or "connect the line"?). The "put cube on a square panel switch" is especially irritating because it 1) takes zero intelligence to do and 2) deliberately wastes the players time. There's zero reason to have it in the game, it does nothing but detract from it. The entire basebuilding component of this game is going to be something most players only interact with insofar as they're required to.

In sum, other than the combat system, there is nothing fun to do in the game. And as established, unless you intentionally gimp yourself with crappy gear, the combat doesn't last long enough to enjoy 99% of the time. At least in Ryza or Sophie or Lulua or whatever I got the satisfaction of wrecking things with weapons that had great trait combinations because I planned out a synthesis.

This isn't an Atelier game. It's a generic JRPG with slight Atelier flavor spritzed onto it. Now this isn't the end times or anything, I'm pretty sure Gust has another dev team working on another project, I just hope that they intend to keep the standard Atelier experiences going, and don't simply start pumping out iterations of what this is.

edit: also, keep in mind that this is an Atelier game with a fairly potent "mixed" rating on the store page. That REALLY says something, considering the fantastic reception of the Ryza and Sophie lines (being that they're the most recent). Problem is, will the devs care at all, if they get 4 or 5x the sales of these previous games? If not, they're incentivized to just crank out these milquetoast blandfests only, and if so, Atelier will be dead.

[larcek]

my biggest issue is the difficulty. even on very hard the game was a breeze and you level up insanely fast. while level-up stats diminish in comparison to crafted gear, reaching max level in region 2 just felt very odd.

traits and forging felt too loosely implemented. you unlock the stand and the forge and are able to fully utilize it instantly. no learning involved, no skills involved. at most you're limited to materials.

the last base building, the mana converter, felt utterly useless for the time you unlock it. at that point you need highest particles for instance, but it only grants lowest tiers. energy prism and trait crystals also felt useless. i expected the last base build to provide some kinda map compass revealing important spots on the map, including leftover treasure trove keys.

i wouldn't call it a bad game, but the pacing is very odd.

..and we're still waiting for the announced update..

[Fals]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

Originally posted by Fals:

but to say there is no planning required to make the best gear is disingenuous.

It is not disingenuous.

Also, keep in mind that this is an Atelier game with a fairly potent "mixed" rating on the store page. That REALLY says something, considering the fantastic reception of the Ryza and Sophie lines (being that they're the most recent). Problem is, will the devs care at all, if they get 4 or 5x the sales of these previous games? If not, they're incentivized to just crank out these milquetoast blandfests only, and if so, Atelier will be dead.

Yes, it is disingenuous. No, just slapping on maxed out ingots does not make the best weapons/armor. There's also Speed and Max HP. You do need to do a little planning and preparation to get the ideal stats on them, unless you take advantage of the bug/glitch, w/e you want to call it, the unintended mechanic of constantly rebuilding an item with only one material at a time to max out the stats. And I was never arguing that this alchemy system is less advanced than all of the other Ateliers. I've even said that Sophie's was probably the best and even touched a bit on the depth of older series synthesis. I'm just saying it's not as mindless as you all are making it out to be. It is over simplified, yes. But there are still some parts you do need to pay attention to if you want to make the best gear possible without using exploits. Unless your opinion of best gear is to focus only on one stat, like attack. Then sure, all you have to do is use Ingots and Primal Remains.

The fact that the reviews are "mixed" can also be used to state that there are people that do find the game enjoyable, and even fun. Again, Breath of the Wild had the same issues when it came out. Because it was so different. It wasn't a traditional Zelda game. Yumia is not a traditional Atelier game. It could be better, yes. But I still enjoyed my time with it, a lot. We get the non-gacha (sequel?) to Atelier Resleriana later this year as well. That'll probably be a more traditional Atelier game, and probably why they decided to release two Ateliers in the same year.

No one is going around crying about how Nelke isn't an Atelier game, even though it also has that title. It's just different. If the genre/style isn't for you, that is understandable. And this game has many flaws worth pointing out, as I have (especially with balance). You don't have to make up points to find fault with the game such as "IT'S NOT MY ATELIER" or "THE SYNTHESIS IS BRAIN DEAD" or "THE PUZZLES ARE FOR CHILDREN" "NO ONE LIKES COLLECTATHONS" (I LOVE Collectathons btw). You can just say you didn't like the game, what you didn't like about the game, and what you think would've made it better. You don't have to be so aggressive and negative and speak so matter-of-factly as if only your opinion is the correct one. Which it isn't btw. Again, I like Atelier Yumia. I'm the target audience. You are not. I'm sorry you didn't find it fun. I found it super fun, despite its many flaws. That is why the reviews are mixed. If it was a bad game, it would be overwhelmingly negative. The game is either for you or it isn't, and that's okay. I don't like it when people try and make devs only make the one style/genre they like, and nothing else.

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by Fals:

Yes, it is disingenuous.

Once again, no it isn't. Disingenuous: Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating. I am completely sincere in what I'm saying. It is not intellectually dishonest in any way. You are using the word wrong.

No, just slapping on maxed out ingots does not make the best weapons/armor. There's also Speed and Max HP.

You are not negating the spirit of my point in any way. Okay, you want to max out those traits? Have a ton of mats with those traits. It takes no planning to get a ton of mats with those traits, just look up which ones get them, and either make a lot of them or clone a lot of them in the greenhouse. That's not "planning" and it's not "thinking." It is straightforward and simplified, there is nothing to "figure out" and nothing you've said has contradicted that. That's the whole point. And without an engaging and complex alchemy system, sorry, you don't have an Atelier game. It is what it is, Atelier's core is about the crafting system.

The fact that the reviews are "mixed" can also be used to state that there are people that do find the game enjoyable, and even fun.

Missing the point again. The two previous lines were much, much better received relative to this one. That indicates that, unless there is some other technical problem with the game, the series has gone in a direction many people have disliked, and by "many" we mean "too large a percentage of the people leaving reviews." If 40-50% of the people review your game negatively, that's pretty bad and indicates a problem. "Mixed" is a lot worse than you're making it out to be, btw. Most mediocre to bad Steam games are between Mixed to Mostly Positive. If there's anything below that, it means there is something HORRIBLY wrong. If I released a game to "Mixed" reviews I would be horrified and devastated as an indie dev. If you've spent longer than a year on Steam this should be obvious to you.

You don't have to make up points to find fault with the game

They aren't made up. The puzzles ARE for children and the synth IS braindead, and saying "that's not true" doesn't invalidate the claim. Oh, you don't agree with them? Okay. Doesn't mean they're "made up", and you're the one ironically claiming that I'm the one acting like only my opinion matters? These points are "made up" because obviously they're not true because[/i]obviously[/i] you disagree? Right. You love collectathons (contrarian)? Great, most people don't. Most people don't like watching paint dry either or anything else that is simple and easy to do without engagement.

So, you're not going to take the time to explain how Simon Says is actually a difficult brain twister or is interesting to do? Or how the alchemy system ISN'T braindead? You said it's "simplified." Yes, it is, to the point that you barely need to be concerned about what goes in the slots. That's braindead.

You don't have to be so aggressive and negative

No, NOW I'm being aggressive and negative, due to your response. The only thing I did in the previous post was describe my gripes with the game. It actually []ishould[/i] have been aggressive due to your leveling accusation of my being disingenuous, but I held off.

Which it isn't btw. Again, I like Atelier Yumia. I'm the target audience.

I don't care. I didn't ask for your opinion and subsequently I don't care about your opinions on mine. This thread is about nitpicks OP had with the game. I decided to add my own. Which tend to be less than nitpicks that many others have with the game, I admit.

I'll end this here. I didn't come in here to have a discussion with you about how your low bar of what "fun" is suddenly invalidates everything I had to say. I came here to post problems I had with the game, like OP. Yet you, your highness, evidently feel the need to give anyone who says anything negative about the game your personal feedback. The tone policing, appeals to emotion and subjectivity, kneejerk response to anything negative, everything in your last paragraph indicates you're a chick. I will kindly ask you to stop worrying about your feelings about what you read on the internet, and stop telling people how to write their posts, it's very condescending.

[Fals]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

Once again, no it isn't. Disingenuous: Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating. I am completely sincere in what I'm saying. It is not intellectually dishonest in any way. You are using the word wrong.

No, I'm not using the word wrong, and the majority of your posts have been disingenuous. I have already explained my side which does in fact contradict everything you have said. It feels like you're not even reading what I post sometimes, or are intentionally ignoring them. Because most of that post I've already touched on, there's no need to repeat myself a third time.

Yes, I'm a woman. I don't see what that has to do with anything. That comes off a bit misogynistic. I'm not trying to police your tone or tell you how to write your posts. I just would appreciate it if people like you were a bit more constructive with your feedback other than "IT'S NOT ATELIER! IT'S BAD! ONLY STUPID PEOPLE LIKE IT! MOST PEOPLE DON'T LIKE COLLECTATHONS! (Which isn't even true btw. Some of the largest games in the world are Collectathons. Heck, the entire Atelier series is a collectathon.)

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

I will kindly ask you to stop worrying about your feelings about what you read on the internet, and stop telling people how to write their posts, it's very condescending.

Hypocrite much? Any normal person can see that you're the one being condescending.

I personally hope we do get a sequel to the Envisioned series. It seems we just won't be able to come to an understanding.

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by Fals:

No, I'm not using the word wrong, and the majority of your posts have been disingenuous.

Yes, you are. I posted the definition and demonstrated the case. In order to be disingenuous I would need to be acting in an intellectually dishonest way and knowingly misrepresenting things in order to bolster my arguments. I'm not doing that.

Heck, the entire Atelier series is a collectathon.

No it isn't. The point of Atelier is not a collectathon and there is no "collect 500 unis" meter. The simple act of being able to grab items doesn't make something a collectathon, which is arbitrarily collecting things solely for the sake of it.

I have already explained my side which does in fact contradict everything you have said.

No, you didn't, and it hasn't. Yes, you wrote a text wall. You wrote nothing substantial in any of it that justifies how my claims are incorrect. You did not invalidate my argument about crafting by simply bringing up a couple of traits I didn't mention, because the traits I did mention were examples, and you did not explain how the point being made was incorrect. "Yes it requires planning" without explaining how it requires planning, just a bold faced assertion and no elaboration, does not support your claim. You did not invalidate anything I said about the minigames, even though you took issue with me describing them as being sophomoric. You don't explain how or why my statements about the game are "made up" but yours are not.

Are you seeing the problem yet? Everything I outlined above is, ironically, disingenuous. You're not engaging with the arguments. Don't bother at this point, I'm already tired of this.

It feels like you're not even reading what I post sometimes

Really? Who is the hypocrite here? My entire last post is all responses to things you've said, and I made THREE main points in that last post, none of which you have addressed, yet you claim I'm the one not reading and addressing things. This just echoes my previous paragraph.

Yes, I'm a woman. I don't see what that has to do with anything.

It has to do with your method of argumentation and your appeals. For example:

That comes off a bit misogynistic. I'm not trying to police your tone or tell you how to write your posts. I just would appreciate it if people like you were a bit more constructive with your feedback other than "IT'S NOT ATELIER! IT'S BAD! ONLY STUPID PEOPLE LIKE IT! MOST PEOPLE DON'T LIKE COLLECTATHONS!

See that? In the span of a few sentences, you

1. use shaming language

2. claim you're not tone policing

3. immediately tone police the literal next sentence by telling me how I should post and how I shouldn't be posting (yes, saying "I would appreciate it if X" is a passive aggressive method of communicating that I should say or do something, claiming otherwise would be disingenuous)

4. disingenuously, and for the second time, misrepresent the statements I've made by posting in all caps, intentionally mischaracterizing my words to directly imply my statements were emotional, irrational and adamant. Of all things in this thread, this is blatantly the most dishonest, and you did this solely because you got triggered by the things I listed about the game I didn't like.

5. You skipped all 3 main reasoned points of the last post and focused on the personal stuff only

That's why it matters. Ingrained psychological tendencies predisposed to result in exactly what you just displayed.

This has been real fun, but I can't keep doing this. And while I would like to take credit for this little circus of ours, remember that you started this downhill slide by falsely claiming I was being "negative and aggressive" for just dumping a list of problems with the game to add to OP's gripes. It wasn't emotive and it wasn't targeted at anyone, but you, princess, read it and took personal offense because you're ego invested in how much you like this game.

You can rest easy knowing that the last word is all yours. As a final note, you should definitely go read the negative reviews.

[Fals]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

You can rest easy knowing that the last word is all yours. As a final note, you should definitely go read the negative reviews.

I have... and most of the ones I've read have been saying it's a good game, just not a good atelier game for hardcore atelier fans expecting the traditional atelier experience. Or about poor performance they've experienced. And most of the reviews are positive. And yes, Atelier is absolutely a collectathon. You have to be absolutely delusional to think otherwise. Heck, it's in the tags...

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

there is no "collect 500 unis" meter

THERE LITERALLY IS!
https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Collectathon/?flavor=contenthub_toprated&facets13268=0%3A3&offset=12
I wonder what some of the highest rated Collectathons are on Steam... hmmm.