Feedback: Magic Knife

[MDK]

I upgraded my Magic Knige to level 3 and it honestly doesn't feel like an upgrade. Sure it does more damage from close range when hitting all 3 knifes, but at the same time you need to be really close. level 2 knifes had a decent range where you could hit a normal sized enemy with both knifes. With level 3 it's more like a shotgun. It doesn't feel like an upgrade, but a different weapon that does more damage, but isn't as safe to use. If the spread was just a tiny bit lower it would be perfect.

[ChunkyStyles]

Level 3 Magic Knife is probably overpowered. It easily allows kiling bosses on first try.

[MDK]

I haven't fought a boss with it yet. It's also the only spell I've upgraded so far so I don't know how it compares to other ones.

Edit: did a quick test and upgraded bomerang to lvl2. It can hit a target 3 times at least so it can deal as much damage as knife lvl3. However it costs 2 mana. Depending on how good bomeran lvl3 is knife might not be OP. The low mana cost does make it really good though.

[ChunkyStyles]

I've upgraded to level 3 the Magic Knife, the Magic Boomerang, and the Magic Stars (I think that's what it's called, the throwing stars).

I never use the boomerang. The low range and the fact that it only ever seems to hit 1-2 times means it's not useful for me. The throwing stars might work for certain enemies, but it has a pretty big spread, so hitting with all 3 of them is difficult, and I haven't had it long enough to really play with it.

So of the 3 that I've maxed, I only really use the knives.

[Sugoi]

Compared to their inspiration, boomerang and molotovs in particular are quite weak. In Castlevania I use cross and holy water almost constantly, but they're way less useful here.

I don't think that the knives are necessarily too strong, but other subweapons are too weak; the only one that I find myself using with any frequency other than knives is the axe, and its arc is a little bit wider than it probably should be too.

[MDK]

Originally posted by Sugoi:

Compared to their inspiration, boomerang and molotovs in particular are quite weak. In Castlevania I use cross and holy water almost constantly, but they're way less useful here.

I don't think that the knives are necessarily too strong, but other subweapons are too weak; the only one that I find myself using with any frequency other than knives is the axe, and its arc is a little bit wider than it probably should be too.

Looking at it a bit more it seems to me that the problem is probably the mana cost. lvl3 Knifes are just so damn efficient since they are only 1 mana per cast. Boomerang is 2 and molotov is 3. I haven't tested them at lvl3, but My guess is that they can deal more raw damage in an optimal situation if mana isn't a concern. With knifes you can just spam them from a distrance. I still stand by my initial post where lvl3 knifes seeml like a "sidegrade" compared to lvl2. It just doesn't matter since the efficiency makes knifes a better close range spell than the real close range spells.

[Sugoi]

Yeah, I can see how reducing the mana costs of other subweapons or increasing the cost of knives would be one way to balance it.

Personally though, I'd much rather see those weapons be worth their higher MP cost instead. Throwing multiple axes similar to the way that you throw multiple daggers, molotov fire spreading across the ground and persisting longer, etc.

[MDK]

Originally posted by Sugoi:

Yeah, I can see how reducing the mana costs of other subweapons or increasing the cost of knives would be one way to balance it.

Personally though, I'd much rather see those weapons be worth their higher MP cost instead. Throwing multiple axes similar to the way that you throw multiple daggers, molotov fire spreading across the ground and persisting longer, etc.

What I would do is triple the mana and make knifes cost something like 4, bomerang 5 and molotov 6. Some spells do need some more work though. Bomerang lvl3 was really dissapointing. It needs to be bigger not have a larger range. bigger bomerang would hit enemies for a longer period of time making it a high risk high reward kinda spell. It's weird that knife and boomerang both end up in the same place at level 3 basically with the range and damage. Knife is just way bette with the mana cost and ability to still hit targets far away even if not all knifes hit.

[MDK]

Some spells and potions are a bit OP for sure. Here is the final boss on normal difficulty. If axe could hit same target multiple times it would probaby be better than knife in this fight.

https://youtu.be/vwEFzX3wmv0

[Kai]

Originally posted by Sugoi:

Compared to their inspiration, boomerang and molotovs in particular are quite weak. In Castlevania I use cross and holy water almost constantly, but they're way less useful here.

I don't think that the knives are necessarily too strong, but other subweapons are too weak; the only one that I find myself using with any frequency other than knives is the axe, and its arc is a little bit wider than it probably should be too.

That's because in this game, enemy placement is spread so far apart you generally fight 1v1 against a ground enemy and sometimes 1 flying or small enemy pesters you.

I'd rather see Magic knife function as follow:

Lv1 tosses 1 knife.
Lv2 tosses 3 knives in rapid fire burst
Lv3 tosses 5 knives in rapid fire burst

So instead of piercing, it's about high efficiency at dishing out DPS.

Boomerang:

Lv1 tosses a slow moving boomerang that hits 3 times.
Lv2 increases damage and range by +15% and adds 1 additional hit.
Lv3 further increases the damage and range by another 15% and adds 1 additional hit.
** Boomerang should be a decently ranged but very slow moving weapon, as a result it should hit much more on big targets.

Alternatively it should fly in a arc where it goes straight then curves around upward to return to you.

Shuriken:
Lv1 tosses a shuriken at a downward straight angle (aiming at a enemy's feet), projectiles that lands on a surface does low damage to enemies touching it.
Lv2 tosses 2 shuriken at that same angle but slightly spread out, and deals damage on contact if enemies steps on it.
Lv3 tosses 3 of these shuriken, the last one is a bit further due to better angle.

The Magic Axe could see a projectile size increase maybe if it doesn't already does that.

Molotov should actually do little damage if the bottle hits them, but the flames should be much bigger, more rate of hits as DPS, and spread more as the level increases (lv1 molotov looks unrealistically stupid).

In relation to the axe from castlevania, basically the better it gets, the bigger the projectile is in addition to higher damage.

It goes from original size to 33% bigger each level, meaning it gets so big it can hit a small hitbox multiple times in that arc.

[HitsB]

The knife is most Def the most powerful offensive ability in the game with the "mana ring".
it should have a reduced range.
and also Buff the molotov. have it travel in a small trail with more AoE on upgrade.

[Kai]

Originally posted by tdrtm:

The knife is most Def the most powerful offensive ability in the game with the "mana ring".
it should have a reduced range.
and also Buff the molotov. have it travel in a small trail with more AoE on upgrade.

Yeah, makes the most sense if it can hit hard but only in close range, like a stack of throwing knives.

At the same time, a ton of knives has to be thrown to make it worthwhile though.

The Molotov should have a bigger flame by default, the width of the game's small enemy basically.

Upgrading it adds a additional flame to the far side next to it, and lv3 adds a 3rd flame which makes the width very wide.

Nerf the 'bottle' damage to be 10% and make the flame damage max damage based on your int.

This makes the molotov very powerful against ground.

Knives are best in close range scatter, preferably a narrow scatter.

Perhaps Shuriken is a long range scatter, meaning with multiple shuriken one will be straight, and there will be up to 5 shuriken 3 degrees apart in a arc upward (it's a aerial weapon).

For downward throw, perhaps look into 'Kunai' as a magic weapon? You toss it and since it's heavier and is equivilent to throwing a dagger, lv3 only throws 3 of them, but they hit much harder than Shurikens.

You could even utilize them as land mines, toss them down, and they will stay active for 5 seconds then explode. They would explode early if a enemy walks on it.
This means they are the best weapon for a defensive backstep casting, as you will lay land mines as you retreat.

Axe can either get bigger, and thrown higher.

All upgrades should increase spell damage by +1 damage per upgrade, so that with low int you can still do some hefty damage.

[MDK]

Originally posted by tdrtm:

The knife is most Def the most powerful offensive ability in the game with the "mana ring".
it should have a reduced range.
and also Buff the molotov. have it travel in a small trail with more AoE on upgrade.

Yeah it should have a range of maybe 40% of screen width. It would still be the furthest reaching spell by far. Now it's just silly that you can shoot it through the whole hallway.

[WonderGoth]

Originally posted by MDK2k:

Some spells and potions are a bit OP for sure. Here is the final boss on normal difficulty. If axe could hit same target multiple times it would probaby be better than knife in this fight.

https://youtu.be/vwEFzX3wmv0

The axe can, it's probably the only reason I could flawless the 2nd boss. When he was in the right pose I think it got 4 hits per axe and in some of the others 2-3.

The biggest problem with the axe seems to be it doesn't gain terribly much from leveling up (unless I'm missing something). It gets a bit bigger but that seems to be it :/ Not even sure lvl 3 is any bigger than two. Although with the multiple hits at least in theory 2 may manage an extra hit per throw on bosses which is something.