DOA6 another game ruined by SJW?

[tm0Lif3]

i saw it will remove physics and no sexualized characters. but i'm seeing topless male characters there. what hippocricy is this? anyway thanks TN you decided for me that i won't be buying this game.

can't wait for people calling me pervert and i should go watch porn. tell you what religious fanatics. i don't need to watch porn nor am i a pervert. i have a partner in real life and probably seen more than you basement dweller who dictate what should be or should not be in a fictional game.

[Cypher]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kurisu_丈:

Początkowo opublikowane przez INANE:

Let me join a discussion.

First of all, what is even point of reducing fanservice in the first place?

To get rid of the stigma that mainstream media and the wider non-fighting game community has against the series due to the prominence of fanservice in previous entries, especially DoA5LR.

Początkowo opublikowane przez INANE:

To appeal to female players?

So far after browsing multiple reports avg. percentage of female players in fighting genre hoover between 8 to 13%. The problem starts here since the fighting genre is a very niche market. DOA 5(not last round) total sales were under 1mln units total(x360 and PS3).

Nowadays KT wants to appeal to the market that just doesn't exist while alienating part of the core fanbase. Since DOA 2 fanservice was part of the game and some people who are with series from the very beginning are just treating it as the core feature, and reducing it just doesn't add any value to the game.

Since the original Dead or Alive there was fanservice. Dead or Alive was the first game to introduce breast physics to fighting games. They're reducing fanservice as a trade off in the hope they'll attract more mainstream people. So far it's working as the press coverage of the game has been wholely positive but that doesn't directly translate to sales. And yeah, they don't care about "the core fanbase" they care about money. From their market research this route is the one they've perceived to be the most profitable so that's why they're taking it.

Początkowo opublikowane przez INANE:

On the other hand, what's wrong with some fanservice in the game?! The characters aren't male or female, they are just a bunch of eye candy polygons. For some God knows what reason there are people offended by that. I'm offended by many things but I somehow still need to live with them. Life isn't always sunshine and roses like some people wants it to be.

It's not what's wrong with fanservice it's what's wrong with mainstream opinions. DoA has a reputation for catering to perverts so it's got a certain stigma attached to the series because of the levels of fanservice the series has allowed. It gets a lot of negative press for this despite having a solid foundation in fighting systems etc.

With DoA 6 they are going for mass market appeal; the big thing now is eSports. The characters are redesigned to be more realistic than their DoA 5 counterparts. They are all in more traditional fighting garb. There is a greater emphasis on fighting with bruising, added to the sweat and dirt they implemented in 5. There are slow motion close up punches to add something interesting for spectators, like the slow motion in Tekken 7 when there's a close encounter. And there's also blood splatter on the screen because that's cool, I guess.

This is generally where my thoughts are with their direction. They're trying to follow the market. And right now, the market is in a different place than it was when they first launched DOA5 (hard to believe it's been 6 years). The SJW kneejerk reaction was predictable. I personally thought it to be ridiculous, but again, this is the internet. And aside from a few fringe elements, the internet at large has said its piece, and moved on.

But here's a thought I'd like to present to the audience. If you remember way back when they first announced DOA5, they wanted to go for a similar approach, but backflipped HARD over fan backlash. And here in 6, we see them doing it again. I've heard the opinion thrown around that Team Ninja have to stand up to the bullies that want to ruin the game. But what if...... what if that's exactly what they are doing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF9LP-9uG_k

[Kuriishi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

This is generally where my thoughts are with their direction. They're trying to follow the market. And right now, the market is in a different place than it was when they first launched DOA5 (hard to believe it's been 6 years). The SJW kneejerk reaction was predictable. I personally thought it to be ridiculous, but again, this is the internet. And aside from a few fringe elements, the internet at large has said its piece, and moved on.

But here's a thought I'd like to present to the audience. If you remember way back when they first announced DOA5, they wanted to go for a similar approach, but backflipped HARD over fan backlash. And here in 6, we see them doing it again. I've heard the opinion thrown around that Team Ninja have to stand up to the bullies that want to ruin the game. But what if...... what if that's exactly what they are doing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF9LP-9uG_k

Personally, in response to the "SJW kneejerk reaction" argument, I think that the "problem" lies not with the so called "SJW's" ruining the game but with KT/TN Kowtowing to pressure. So when people bring that up I believe they're misplacing blame in that regard.

One thing I would like to understand is why they backpeddled so hard with 5. They really went overboard. With 6 it's like they're going to the other extreme which is really interesting. I mean, based off what they've been saying and shown. I think it's laughable in any sense to portray them as the victim though XD

[Providence 777]

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

This is generally where my thoughts are with their direction. They're trying to follow the market. And right now, the market is in a different place than it was when they first launched DOA5

I'm sorry, but this is completely false.

The market did not change in regards to fanservice or sex appeal in respect to the target demographic's interests.

Most gamers are still male, most fighting game players are still male, most males still like eye candy in their fighting games (in respect to their orientation).

Look at the DLC for SFV, Chun-li and Cammy have the most costumes out of any character, almost all of them are fanservice costumes, Chun-li isn't even remotely the most used character, yet people are STILL buying her costumes in bulk, so Capcom keeps making more, and we're not even talking about Laura or R.Mika

Some wonder if SFV is staying afloat purely on the sales of Chun-li's costumes alone (it's a running joke, but it's a common one for a reason).

Look at the direction that comicbooks have been going while claiming "the market is different", their sales are tanking as they go out of their way to make the females unattractive.

Meanwhile, these indie up-starts without any brand behind them are destroying Marvel comics in sales, Marvel comics taking a knee in sales to indie comics made by RANDOMS, and these randoms feature attractive female characters and fanservice.

I'm sorry, but this "the market has changed" is complete nonsense, with no basis in reality or fact, it's an un-sourceable claim which should not even be considered in the wake of data we have access to now.

(hard to believe it's been 6 years). The SJW kneejerk reaction was predictable. I personally thought it to be ridiculous, but again, this is the internet. And aside from a few fringe elements, the internet at large has said its piece, and moved on.

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

But here's a thought I'd like to present to the audience. If you remember way back when they first announced DOA5, they wanted to go for a similar approach, but backflipped HARD over fan backlash. And here in 6, we see them doing it again. I've heard the opinion thrown around that Team Ninja have to stand up to the bullies that want to ruin the game. But what if...... what if that's exactly what they are doing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF9LP-9uG_k

Bullsh!t.

Fanservice does not "ruin the game" when we're talking about a franchise that's been created on the premise of "fanservice".

That's called "marketing to the demographic".

The original fans are not "bullies" for wanting their favorite franchise to market to them, everything was peaceful in the community, even as the constant attacks against the game series by the news media and gaming news media raged on. Only now that those attacks have impacted the product are we now upset.

[erobotan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

But here's a thought I'd like to present to the audience. If you remember way back when they first announced DOA5, they wanted to go for a similar approach, but backflipped HARD over fan backlash. And here in 6, we see them doing it again. I've heard the opinion thrown around that Team Ninja have to stand up to the bullies that want to ruin the game. But what if...... what if that's exactly what they are doing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF9LP-9uG_k

you better stop lol, self guilt is dangerous and not good for your health (look at how the eldyans act in Shingeki no kyojin/Attack on Titan. If you want real life example then there is white guilt aka the current generation of whites feel guilty over things that happen hundred years ago (lolol!!) ).

For 8 years, it's always SJWs who censored and ban our games, who make japanese devs afraid and canceling their game releases. When SJWs make complaints it's always because they're offended, they never care about the game itself. If someone doesn't bow to their demands, the SJW mob will harass and smear them via game media like kotaku & friends, twitter, etc

We make complaints because we care about the game and worry that the game will flop if it went to that other directions. We might scream boycott if they don't listen to us at the moment, but i'm sure quite a lot of us will buy the game if the game somehow magically end up good. And if the game end up terrible just like we predict it, we just move on and hope they will listen to us next time in DoA7 or DoA6LR.

[Cypher]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Providence 777:

I'm sorry, but this is completely false.

The market did not change in regards to fanservice or sex appeal in respect to the target demographic's interests.

Most gamers are still male, most fighting game players are still male, most males still like eye candy in their fighting games (in respect to their orientation).

You don't consider the shift towards e-sports to be a change in the market?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Providence 777:

Look at the DLC for SFV, Chun-li and Cammy have the most costumes out of any character, almost all of them are fanservice costumes, Chun-li isn't even remotely the most used character, yet people are STILL buying her costumes in bulk, so Capcom keeps making more, and we're not even talking about Laura or R.Mika

Some wonder if SFV is staying afloat purely on the sales of Chun-li's costumes alone (it's a running joke, but it's a common one for a reason).

SFV female cast has on average, between 10-15 costumes Released over a two year period. I certainly wouldn't say that almost all of them are fanservice costumes. Two thirds would be a fairer statement. Actually, Chun-Li has a very diverse palette with her DLC costumes, ranging from complete fanservice, like her training outfit, all the way down to cery conservative, such as that SWAT outfit (personal opinion, the exposed midriff was a horrible design choice, and really doesn't work well with that costume).

Początkowo opublikowane przez Providence 777:

Look at the direction that comicbooks have been going while claiming "the market is different", their sales are tanking as they go out of their way to make the females unattractive.

Meanwhile, these indie up-starts without any brand behind them are destroying Marvel comics in sales, Marvel comics taking a knee in sales to indie comics made by RANDOMS, and these randoms feature attractive female characters and fanservice.

Well, I guess you can't say that the entirety of the comic book industry is a hivemind, now can you?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Providence 777:

Bullsh!t.

Fanservice does not "ruin the game" when we're talking about a franchise that's been created on the premise of "fanservice".

That's called "marketing to the demographic".

The original fans are not "bullies" for wanting their favorite franchise to market to them, everything was peaceful in the community, even as the constant attacks against the game series by the news media and gaming news media raged on. Only now that those attacks have impacted the product are we now upset.

Yeah I figured this would rustle your jimmies. But is it really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ though?

Remember that DOA5 was originally supposed to go in the direction 6 looks to be going in: A more serious game that didn't rely on fanservice as a crutch? Well that never happened thanks to the intervention of the original fans. A fact that you, being an original fan are proud to broadcast. And not that I don't appreciate the effort. Hell, 26 year old me pre-ordered the original game on the announcement of bikinis. Hell, over the years, I've dropped a week's worth of pay into DLC.

But be honest about what you guys did there. You(the fanbase) bullied the developers into changing their original direction into something that catered towards your tastes. Just like you're bullying them now.

[erobotan]

even though SJWs have been bullying everyone for 8 years, but somehow according to this melbourne dude, we're the bad guys lol. Nice logic

[Cypher]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kurisu_丈:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF9LP-9uG_k
Personally, in response to the "SJW kneejerk reaction" argument, I think that the "problem" lies not with the so called "SJW's" ruining the game but with KT/TN Kowtowing to pressure. So when people bring that up I believe they're misplacing blame in that regard.

One thing I would like to understand is why they backpeddled so hard with 5. They really went overboard. With 6 it's like they're going to the other extreme which is really interesting. I mean, based off what they've been saying and shown. I think it's laughable in any sense to portray them as the victim though XD

Totally missed your reply in the shuffle.

I think this is a fair statement. Personally, I think it's a case of KT wanting in on the esports scene, to the effect that they're willing to leave their core audience behind for the sake of mainstream appeal. As for the hard backflip on 5, I'd say it would have something to do with how much bank they were making from DLC. Say what you want about their DLC practices, and believe me there's plenty to say. But 6 consistent years worth of content tells me that they made enough of a profit to justify it.

And granted, it might be a bit ridiculous to call TN as a whole, a victim of bullying, but try tell that to the PR guys and the social media managers that have to deal with this ♥♥♥♥ on the surface.

[erobotan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

And granted, it might be a bit ridiculous to call TN as a whole, a victim of bullying, but try tell that to the PR guys and the social media managers that have to deal with this ♥♥♥♥ on the surface.

I don't see any PR or social media managers replying us.

[Providence 777]

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

Yeah I figured this would rustle your jimmies. But is it really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ though?

Yes, because you're forgetting that they were removing the fanservice in the first place because of misinformation from their overseas offices.

They never would have considered toning down the series, but their overseas offices lied to corporate in Japan, telling them that American's weren't interested in fanservice anymore.

So it's totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to attempt to categorize people speaking up for their interests as "bullying", considering someone had to first LIE about their interests by putting words in their mouths to begin with.

If I go around telling people: "Hey that guy on steam called It's time to nuke Melbourne, he tells me he's interested in doing dogs." Would you consider yourself a bully for simply correcting that nonsense statement? Why should you have to keep quite while someone else speaks for you? And does so dishonestly?

So again, that's totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

But be honest about what you guys did there. You(the fanbase) bullied the developers into changing their original direction into something that catered towards your tastes. Just like you're bullying them now.

They're making a product, they're presenting the product thus far asking for feedback.

Why is giving feedback "bullying" to you? Seriously explain this logic, where potential buyers don't find the product being advertised to them to be appealing, the creators ask for feedback, and the potential buyers have to keep quite, because if they give the developers what they want, then they're being "bullies".

Explain that to me.

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

You don't consider the shift towards e-sports to be a change in the market?

That's why I specified "The market did not change in regards to fanservice or sex appeal in respect to the target demographic's interests."

Because it didn't, and "e-sports" is non-sequitur to this issue considering all that's required to make it "Broadcast friendly" is a conservative option for each character. But even need to call that into question because SCVI is also looking to e-sports as well, yet they're not censoring the base game at all.

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

SFV female cast has on average, between 10-15 costumes Released over a two year period. I certainly wouldn't say that almost all of them are fanservice costumes. Two thirds would be a fairer statement. Actually, Chun-Li has a very diverse palette with her DLC costumes, ranging from complete fanservice, like her training outfit, all the way down to cery conservative, such as that SWAT outfit (personal opinion, the exposed midriff was a horrible design choice, and really doesn't work well with that costume).

That swat outfit is the only one that's not tied to any mainstream fetish, so it's fair to say it's not a fanservice costume, but literally all others are "fanservice" for Chun-li, and that's fine.

But looking at that number of costumes, consider that many of the cast have only 3 to 4 costumes still.

Początkowo opublikowane przez It's time to nuke Melbourne:

Well, I guess you can't say that the entirety of the comic book industry is a hivemind, now can you?

Marvel comics you dumbass. I specified so in my post.

They have clear guidelines, a mission statement, and overall goal when creating content for their comicbooks.

Think of it as a "work uniform dresscode" type of thing, but for writing and illustrating comicbooks. Anyone who doesn't adhere to the guidelines doesn't write or draw for Marvel comics.

And this design for comics extends beyond Marvel as they pressure publishing companies to not do business with any of the competing authors if they don't conform to Marvel's goals (which is totally illegal btw, but Marvel still did it anyway)

How is this a hard concept for you to understand?
Go lookup Jawbreakers deal with Atlantic Press getting stomped by Marvel comics.

[⎛⎝ Kupo ⎠⎞]

@It's time to nuke Melbourne

I can actually agree with you somewhat, but only in regards to the special DoA breast physics mode and some of the extra DLC like the Paradise Movies ( unless they decide to also add the male characters too ).
I don't agree at all in regards to the character designs tho.
And I don't buy into this notion whatsoever that people are somehow more prudish now and less interested in '' lewd '' costumes.
If anything, there's probably more people around nowadays who also think that they're cool like me mixed in there with people who just think that they're sexy.

Altho with that said, I think that you're being a bit too dismissive towards the '' SJW '' thing.
I admit that I try to stay away from that word as much as I can too, because I think that it's a bit counterproductive and almost makes it sound as if you're on the wrong side for being against them.
And also, just because I don't like '' SJW's '' and how aggressively they try to ♥♥♥♥ around with thing that I love. I still do care about '' social justice '' and issues like diversity and inclusivity.
I just care about it for real, and not in some kind of a pseudo-progressive way where '' diversity and inclusivity '' = only super average or bellow average people.
Especially not in a freakin fighting game heavy on the fantasy with magical powers and car explosions in peoples faces....
But I also wouldn't mind seeing some larger or more masculine women ( and more feminine men ) for example.
And I also wouldn't mind something like a transgender character either, and I am sure that'd get people to cry out about '' SJW's '' too.
I mean I really loved Poison in SF, but I can sorta understand if people want a less '' fetischy '' for a lack of a better term trans person.
And I wouldn't mind it at all.
In fact, I'd be happy about it because it pleases me when others are happy too and get something that they want too.
I'd celebrate if they kept what I love in DoA5 and brought it into DoA6, and then the new female or male character that they announced were transgendered.
I'd be genuinly happy about that.
I just don't want what I like and enjoy to be taken out and be removed or censored in the process.
That's all really.
But in the end of the day I don't think that it's fair that two sides of the extreme get to have all the say, there's people in the middle too.

To me at least it all sorta boils down to the '' He-Ra vs She-Ra test '' ( the old She-Ra, not the new child She-Ra <.<... ).
Do both the male and female characters dress in skimpy costumes?
Yes?
Okay, then you're cool ( FFXIV is a really great example of that! ).
And I don't think that it's less okay because of certain bodytypes. I look more at what they wear, but I do despise inconsistency and then the devs and media gloating about things like breast reduction surgeries...
I'd buy that it went a bit further in one direction than the other with the female characters.
But my personal preference would be more for the male characters, rather than less for the female ones.
So long as they don't remove skimpy '' real costumes '' so to speak like these: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cXU2CTNXyOE/maxresdefault.jpg
I don't really care if they remove things like these: https://pre00.deviantart.net/3db3/th/pre/i/2014/295/1/3/ayane_halloween_2014_by_blueseeker93-d83r03y.png
Because that'd be removing what I think is cool. Whilst the other is just straight up lewd to me and nothing else really.
Ayane and Kasumis costumes in the first is what I regard as cool. And quite frankly, it still covers more skin than a great deal of the male ones.
Especially in DoA5 where male characters had speedos too.
Altho I'd personally like to see some more elaborate costumes like those for the male characters too.

[⎛⎝ Kupo ⎠⎞]

On the flip side.
There definetly are people who are hypocritical about this and start crying the moment that a male character is sexualized in a bit more a feminine way which really bothers me too.
'' Wol '' from Mobius Final Fantasy is a good example of that and how people complained that he was '' too sexy '' ( in a '' gay '' way, whatever the ♥♥♥♥ that means... Projecting much I guess? ).
And so he was censored...

And I do agree with some people who point out the hypocrisy there, because yeah... A lot of the people who complained about him are probably all outraged when it happens with female characters....
Be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ consistent please.
If people are going to complain about female characters being censored, then don't demand and then celebrate censorship of male characters because you think that he '' looked too gay '' or whatever... ( Seriously, in a Final Fantasy game too? LOL. Have they never played a Final Fantasy game before??? The men have mostly always looked more on the feminine side... ).

Granted, that's the only case of it happening to a male character that I am aware of at least.
But it happens all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time to female characters.
But still, it shouldn't be excused regardless.
And if I had known back then and if I had any interest in the FF series outside of the MMO then I would've been just as vocal against that case too.
Because at least I am consistent here.

In defense of the FF community.
In my experience at least, I'd be extremely surprised if they were the ones complaining about Wol's character design.
We're talking about a community that is quite vocal about wanting male characters to be allowed to wear female clothing in FFXIV because they think that dresses are pretty.
So yeah... The outrage probably came from somewhere else.
Which only makes it even more hypocritical, because the corners of the internet where it came from most likely lose their ♥♥♥♥ when it happens to female characters.

[Meturoido]

As referenced in the other thread, there is a petition going on:

https://www.change.org/p/dead-or-alive-6-must-listen-to-their-fans-dead-or-alive-6-debe-escuchar-a-sus-fan%C3%A1ticos

Not that a petition will do much but, in this case Tecmo has blocked the petition starter in a world wide fashion, that says a lot about where Tecmo stands on this matter.

[DANIEL RAIN]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Meturoido:

As referenced in the other thread, there is a petition going on:

https://www.change.org/p/dead-or-alive-6-must-listen-to-their-fans-dead-or-alive-6-debe-escuchar-a-sus-fan%C3%A1ticos

Not that a petition will do much but, in this case Tecmo has blocked the petition starter in a world wide fashion, that says a lot about where Tecmo stands on this matter.

That's not a petition, that's a bunch of weirdos who are crying because they can't play the game with one hand anymore :D P.S i noticed your spamming the link on the forum, keep doing it and i will report you :P

[Kuriishi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DANIEL RAIN:

That's not a petition, that's a bunch of weirdos who are crying because they can't play the game with one hand anymore :D P.S i noticed your spamming the link on the forum, keep doing it and i will report you :P

What's really funny is, the petition starter wants to deliver the petition to Koei Tecmo, but KT have blocked them on twitter, so obviously they're not as receptive to a petition as the guy starting it would've hoped XD

[erobotan]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DANIEL RAIN:

i noticed your spamming the link on the forum, keep doing it and i will report you :P

lol daniel-chan, you always crying to "your mod" for help (who obviously always ignores you lol)