No roguelite features?

[skyhrg]

I've played this for just a bit. I love roguelites with upgrades that affect the whole run afterwards. But so far I'm not seeing this in this game?

Are there no permanent upgrades in this game?

[Myno]

No "upgrades", per se. You can unlock weapons, items, and game modes, but first you need to rescue the NPCs associated with these things (you'll see them locked in cells during a run), then they'll show up in the starting area. There are also a few playable characters to unlock.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by skyhrg:

I've played this for just a bit. I love roguelites with upgrades that affect the whole run afterwards. But so far I'm not seeing this in this game?

Are there no permanent upgrades in this game?

Those are not "roguelite features." What you're talking about specifically is persistent progression, which is present here but much, much less impactful than other titles that focus more on that aspect such as Heroes of Hammerwatch, Hades and Rogue Legacy 1 and 2.

That said, the unlockable characters, guns and items make a massive difference in your runs on average and appear fairly reliably. There's a much smaller pool of unlockables here than Isaac, which means those particular items you unlock have on average a much greater chance of appearing and replacing the starter pool.

Otherwise, no, what you're looking for is present in other great roguelites but not this one. It's not an oversight, it's a deliberate design decision.

[skyhrg]

Originally posted by Virgil:

That said, the unlockable characters, guns and items make a massive difference in your runs on average and appear fairly reliably. There's a much smaller pool of unlockables here than Isaac, which means those particular items you unlock have on average a much greater chance of appearing and replacing the starter pool.

Otherwise, no, what you're looking for is present in other great roguelites but not this one. It's not an oversight, it's a deliberate design decision.

Ok I see. As long as it makes a big difference in my runs, I'm happy.

[Needl]

Originally posted by skyhrg:

Originally posted by Virgil:

That said, the unlockable characters, guns and items make a massive difference in your runs on average and appear fairly reliably. There's a much smaller pool of unlockables here than Isaac, which means those particular items you unlock have on average a much greater chance of appearing and replacing the starter pool.

Otherwise, no, what you're looking for is present in other great roguelites but not this one. It's not an oversight, it's a deliberate design decision.

Ok I see. As long as it makes a big difference in my runs, I'm happy.

It really does make a big difference, but unless a player can achieve a certain level of proficiency, they will never see that difference. I'm sure you know this already, but I'm commenting here in case anyone reading this thread, like me, had a really hard time when they first played it:

I originally got this game on Switch, and it was miserable. The frame rate was abysmal, and the lower resolution meant that I simply had no idea what was happening on the screen much of the time. So of course I was dying a lot, but even after I learned enough to stop dying as much, I still wasn't really having any fun, and I didn't know why until about a year ago. The issue, it turns out, is the invisible "magnificence" score mechanic.

Basically, because I was already handicapped in an invisible way with the horrific framerate and lowered resolution, I was never going to enjoy this game. But then I saw it was available for PS4, and I bought it immediately. I was suddenly able to play the game in 4k and 60fps, and my enjoyment went through the roof immediately, because I started getting good enough for the game to really begin to hand out goodies left and right, and it kept me coming back for more.

EtG is a true rogue-like in that it *really* wants to reward you for playing perfectly. For every room that you clear, you get a "magnificence score." This seems to be determined by a) not taking any damage, and b) getting the room cleared in fast and/or spectacular ways. The faster you clear a room, and the more planned chaos you can create while doing it (either by using weapons efficiently, or by blowing up a bunch of strategically placed barrels, etc.), all while taking preferably zero damage, the higher that "magnificence score" is going to be. When that score gets high enough and stays that way, the game becomes *much* more likely to start handing you really OP weapons and synergies, and all the keys and money you need to attain them. I'm sure all this is blindingly obvious to most folks who play roguelikes and other games that reward a player for "gitting gud," but for someone like me who never really played such games, it was a stunning revelation.

Which I have to say, I wish the game let on just a little bit more as to it working that way, because it really incentivized me to play a lot better immediately. In fact, only a handful of runs after learning about this hidden score stat, I beat the Dragun for the very first time! I do feel like EtG is something of a "gateway game" for other high skill=high reward titles like Dark Souls or Bloodbourne. I don't pretend like I'll ever truly be good at these games, but it's great that they're finally *fun.*

Anyway, hope this helped. Have fun in the Gungeon! There are SO MANY secrets to unlock!!!

[Virgil]

Originally posted by Needl:

EtG is a true rogue-like in that it *really* wants to reward you for playing perfectly. For every room that you clear, you get a "magnificence score." This seems to be determined by a) not taking any damage, and b) getting the room cleared in fast and/or spectacular ways. The faster you clear a room, and the more planned chaos you can create while doing it (either by using weapons efficiently, or by blowing up a bunch of strategically placed barrels, etc.), all while taking preferably zero damage, the higher that "magnificence score" is going to be. When that score gets high enough and stays that way, the game becomes *much* more likely to start handing you really OP weapons and synergies, and all the keys and money you need to attain them. I'm sure all this is blindingly obvious to most folks who play roguelikes and other games that reward a player for "gitting gud," but for someone like me who never really played such games, it was a stunning revelation.

I'm glad you're getting a grasp of the mechanics now that you aren't hamstrung with terrible FPS. As a budget PC gamer for a very long time, I can strongly empathize and have had to get very familiar with tweaking .ini files and other variables across a wide variety of engines to get games to be playable on PCs that they were not designed to work on. Thankfully those days are over, but I will never forget the horror.

I do have to correct this information about Magnificence, however. There is nothing in the game that tracks your time or monitors you for hidden style points for playing flashy. Loot is determined by floor and the good old RNG, though there are certain things you can do to manipulate this a (tiny) bit. For example, on every standard floor are two chest rooms - one is guaranteed to contain an item, while the other is guaranteed to contain a weapon. If you don't pick up a weapon before the boss, the boss is guaranteed to drop one. Random chest spawns and loot from normal rooms is completely driven by chance and could be anything.

To quote the wiki on Magnificence: "Magnificence is a hidden stat that prevents too many A Quality Item or S Quality Item tier items from being acquired in a single run. Picking up any item or gun of A Quality Item or S Quality Item quality increases magnificence by 1. It will only happen the first time that particular instance of the item is picked up, so it can be dropped and picked up without further increasing magnificence. The increase is permanent and cannot be removed by dropping, selling, or destroying the item. This magnificence counter will carry over to the next floor. Each red or black chest created during floor generation increases "chest magnificence" by 1. Opening one of these chests (and only these chests, not any other red or black chests that may have spawned on the floor) decreases chest magnificence by 1. It is currently unknown whether or not the magnificence from unopened chests carries over across floors.

Whenever the game wants to generate a floor reward item (be it a floor generation chest, a room clear reward chest, a boss reward item, or a shop item) and the result turns out to be an A Quality Item or S Quality Item tier reward, the quality has a chance to be downgraded. Magnificence and chest magnificence are added together, and if the resulting number is 0, the reward will not be affected. If the number is above 0, the chance that the reward quality is downgraded rises logarithmically."

In short, I agree that they could have explained some of the hidden mechanics like Coolness, Magnificence and even Curse a lot more clearly in-game. You don't need to play perfectly to get the best stuff, however.

EDIT: https://enterthegungeon.fandom.com/wiki/Quality I highly advise anyone in need of any obscure information on this game to at least quickly glance at the various pages of the wiki, it's a goldmine for anyone trying to improve their play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFGxB6ULWlI This video also does a fantastic job of taking you through a run from beginning to end, including all secret floors, from one of the best Gungeon players on the planet. You *will* improve if you watch the video, even if you have to stagger it over a few days to get through it all.

[pewpewdewd]

persistent progression is a roguelite element, as one of the defining characteristics of a rogueLIKE is that the only benefit you keep between runs is what you know, while rogueLITEs have some form of progression or unlocking.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by pewpewdewd:

persistent progression is a roguelite element, as one of the defining characteristics of a rogueLIKE is that the only benefit you keep between runs is what you know, while rogueLITEs have some form of progression or unlocking.

Yeah, I phrased that incorrectly. I know the differences - Barony a roguelike, Gungeon a roguelite - etc etc. I knew someone would pounce on terminology as is often the case with roguelikes/roguelites. I think you know what I meant, but let me clarify in case you're not just being obtuse.

Certain roguelites will let you keep your stats from run to run, such as Hades or RL2. Other roguelites will let you unlock ♥♥♥♥, such as this and Isaac. It's not a hard distinction to make and I think any layman knew what I meant, but we're all glad for the clarification nonetheless for what it added to this thread.

Even with your input, OP's point and my counterpoint would be completely identical.

EDIT: I'm grouchy as hell when I first wake up. I'll leave this up because what's said was said and I'm not gonna try to pretend I wasn't a moody little ♥♥♥♥♥, but yeah, you're right. Persistent progression IS a roguelite element. Enter the Gungeon has persistent progression.

[GameKyuubi]

I think the issue is that OP mistakenly assumed that no perm progression = not roguelite. Like yes, perm progression is a roguelite feature, but NOT having Hades-like perm stat progression doesn't make it not a roguelite.

[Ink Sac]

if you smack your balls with a shoehorn then yes

[saramayaslim]

Originally posted by skyhrg:

I've played this for just a bit. I love roguelites with upgrades that affect the whole run afterwards. But so far I'm not seeing this in this game?

Are there no permanent upgrades in this game?

I'm liable to catch a lot of flak for saying this, but hear me out first:
Well there are neither roguelike nor roguelite features in either Exit or Enter the Gungeon.
Rogue is the namesake for both roguelike and roguelite. You're right in thinking that "roguelite means roguelike but with metaprogress," because the first definition-based usage of roguelite says exactly this, about the mystery dungeon games.[forums.penny-arcade.com] "Roguelikes but with metaprogress" basically.

The trouble is that both terms have been hijacked to mean "this game has an arcade loop," by gaming "journalists" and the steam userbase. That is a huge problem when you're half-blind, one armed and roguelikes are the near totality of what you can play due to the disability access they offer.

Proper roguelikes and roguelites offer a wealth of disability access in gaming that is unwittingly, but systematically being phased out by people who don't know what Rogue is.

Gaming should be for everyone. It sadly isn't when people phase out disabled accessible genres because they want a marketing buzzword.

[pingu]

there is one roguelite feature in the form of a single gun called the Gunderfury. Each enemy you kill with the gun grant you xp for it which levels up the gun and makes it more powerful, carrying over between runs.

[Flytrap]

Persistent progression is a roguelite feature.

For it to be a rogueLIKE, there can not be any progression between runs. Because its based on the original game, 'Rogue', which was a complete reset every time.