News flash: Rogue likes are supposed to be hard.

[vic_viperman]

I don't get it-- why is there a vocal minority complaining about this? Spelunky, Dungeons of dredmoor, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Rogue Legacy, etc... they are all hard. That is part of the genre due to how the rest of a roguelike game is generally designed.

ETG doesn't feel any harder than something like Spelunky for example, so what's the problem?

[e.bkapalka]

Not everyone is accustomed to the difficulty. I'm not playing it because I expect it to be like other games. I was drawn in by the graphics style and huge variety of things

[Callie]

It's worth noting that DoD and ToME for example both have difficulty settings, as well as "no perma-death" modes. I tried it once like that and found it boring, but the option is there for those who prefer it. No one ever complains about those because it doesn't change the game if you choose not to use it. I think the difficulty in this game is fine more or less but I don't understand the "counter complainers" if you will.

[SolviteSekai]

The problem is, its on the top sellers list, so people think that means it has to be better than every other game below it.

People think top sellers is some kind of quality ranking list. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the division is on top sellers.

[Dreambox]

game itself is really cool but i think that the RNG is pretty bad made with the items. you don't get a real feeling of "progression" like in other dungeon crawler. It's really too rare to find good weapon and the shop keeper sell stuff for incredibly high price so i always feel i'm doing the same run over and over again where in other similar game like isaac i alway have a totally different character, i like the game but i'm afraid i'm gonna get bored of it pretty quickly

I know that giving more weapon will make the game easier but it would be better to just give more loot (so all the retry really feel different) and to give more difficult patern to the enemy, only boss have some real danmaku pattern.

Isaac and Crypt of the necrodancer are difficult (especialy COTN) and yet they give more loot, giving every try a refreshing feel, Enter the gungeon doesn't

(btw english is not my native language so i write like ♥♥♥♥)

[spicy]

The problem I have is that the actual 'difficulty' of the enemies (like, their patterns and stuff) are perfectly balanced and well designed, and if you get hit it's your fault, not the games, which is really great and I'm glad there's no handholding in terms of the bullet hell...But then there's the weapon drop rate.

This is only an issue in level 1 imo, because not having another gun for the boss fight doesn't make it any harder, just tedious and repetitive. I propose one change; ya know how in Isaac (as much as I hate to compare it to that game, which is a boring grindfest compared to gungeon) the first item room is always free? Make it so you get a 100% chance to find a free weapon on level 1, it's the GUNgeon after all.

Aside from that it's all skillbased, so long as you have a few good weapons there's no real bull**** or anything, just well designed bullethell.

[bluechipps]

The only reason EtG is getting tons of QQ is because it had a really successful launch compared to most roguelikes. Tons of roguelike noobs who didn't quite know what they were getting into and aren't used to being told that "life's not fair, get over it".

Also considering the large number of players, even if it were just 1% of them that are upset with roguelikes not being easy, that 1% would still be enough to flood this place with QQ... just saying, with so many players there is absolutely no way even with the best game ever that you can make everyone happy, especially with a game whose goal is to kick your ass without mercy.

Not everyone seems to enjoy getting their asses kicked unfortunately. If only they would stop QQing long enough to give it a chance, they would learn to enjoy it :)

[Eternally Ephemeral]

I locked my disabled grandma in a home the other day. When I got questioned by the police and accused of manslaughter, I testified; "It wasn't my fault the silly ♥♥♥♥♥ couldn't get by without any keys."

[Romana]

I absouetly love this game, and difficulty is a non problem for me, but I have to be really, really pendantic and point out that this game isn't a roguelike. Neither is Spelunky, or BoI, or Rogue Legacy for that matter, the dillution of that subgenre by associating it with things that have never been associated with it for years is saddening to me.

[Bubblegum Witch]

They're also supposed to be fun, which this isn't. If anything it's too easy. Everything is slow, weapons all feel like pea shooters, and because of the drop rates there's very little variety. I'd gladly take a game where enemies hit harder if it meant that we could move faster and player attacks actually felt like they were doing something. As it stands now, no matter what you want from it, the game is bad. It's too hard for the BoI audience and too dull for the Nuclear Throne audience. Gungeon attempts a lot of great concepts but the implementation is all subpar, made worse by the fact that they have competitors (Nuclear Throne, Assault Android Cactus) who have done those same ideas extremely well.

[Coin]

♥♥♥♥ like this happen in a forum of any ~difficult game.

[Orban King Enjoyer]

Originally posted by Cyrpus:

It's worth noting that DoD and ToME for example both have difficulty settings, as well as "no perma-death" modes. I tried it once like that and found it boring, but the option is there for those who prefer it. No one ever complains about those because it doesn't change the game if you choose not to use it. I think the difficulty in this game is fine more or less but I don't understand the "counter complainers" if you will.

I like options like these because it allows you to get "acclimated" with the game. You can do things like make a few runs with no-permadeth, see how many times you died to beat it, start working on cutting down losses, then progress to start making perma-death runs as a way of graduating.

Not that you can't do that with perma-death only games, but I think that might be the reason why rogues are such a niche genre. Some people like it, some people don't, I just feel that more people are going to play a game with options to do or not to do.

I guess I liken it to old school platformeres where you encounter something new...a stage or a boss and get yoru ass handed to you. Which is totally fine. The difference is you do get a "do-over" and maybe have to run the level again, but don't have to reinvest another 45 minutes in getting there to get another crack at it. I want to learn this bosse's pattern, but I don't want to have to play half an hour just to get to it every time I want to do so. I find myself maybe getting in 2-3 runs before I get burnt out with having to slog it through the floors all over again.

Though, in EtG's case, that may be because the game slogs along and generally feels unrewarding for cleaing out huge rooms of enemies at a time. Isaac made me feel like I got some or other in every other room or so.

[Hamilton Breakfast]

When discussing difficulty in a videogame it is important to remeber that everybody is different and perma death may be too punishing for beginners to rogue-like genres or for people like me who just suck. Usually in good rogue like games you start off easy and rely on items untill you can add skill to it aswell. While in the Gungeon the difficulty starts off like, well... a bullet, and perma death adds to the issue.

[Ghaleon]

Please recognize that roguelikes and roguelites are different. Not that your point is debunked because of that, not at all.

Basically though, it's just that most people are sore losers, especially the younger generation who are kinda educated that everyone is a winner, etc. Roguelikes/lites have a hard 'you lose, no continue, you're dead, period) that they aren't used to from other games where they can reload and they don't actually feel like much of a loss at all.

Some people th ink the goal is to win the game or to get all the imaginary trophies, but they don't aknowledge the old original goal which was get a higher score, reach a new level. These things are now ignored, taken for granted, nor not even implimented at all.

[Full_Metal_Meme]

My only problem is the massive potential wave of people telling me to "git gud" after requesting advice that doesn't involve "practice xdddd".

After seeing what this community is like, I realize I want no part of it.

[Titan]

Look people. Not everyone has the same exacting level of gaming skill that is required to beat this game. Just because this game is easy to you doesn't mean that other people are going to find it easy too. I get real tired of seeing people asking for help on how to make what is, in my opinion, a stupidly hard game, any easier and only seeing the answer "Get gud." First off that is extremely annoying and degrading, because they are already asking for your help. How are they going to get better if you, the "Experts", don't tell, them? You are the people who know the most about the game!

Second of all, everyone has a different idea of what easy is. You cannot go around thinking that your definition of easy applies universally, to all people. I can barely do basic math at times, especially some things people consider "Easy."

Third of all, by the point they start complaining of the difficulty level they are usually extremely frustrated. When you are frustrated with a game, do YOU stop and appriciate the time-tested formula of gamemaking? Do you stop and shake your head, thinking "No, that would throw off the whole dynamic of the rougelike formula"? NO! You swear a bit and go to google and look up how to make the game easier! "Is there a setting I missed? Is there some control I need to know? Is there a difficulty setting?" And you make a good point, not everyone is expecting the difficulty. But does it really help to point fingers and laugh, when you can do something constructive and help them? Instead of just saying "Get Gud," Why not actually provide some constructive advice, such as "Buy armor first" or "The boss's bullets won't reach that far to the left?"

My point is, I feel you focus so much on the player's griping that you don't think about how you people can help. Helping is good Karma. It's a win win.