Bad balance with Ammolets

[Nova Dusklight]

The ammolets are very clearly regarded as powerful by the game.

They cost near 100, even on early floors to purchase.
They are a rare drop AND they show up in black chests.

Ammolets are easily the worst loot in a chest. When looting a golden and black chest I can easily say I would rather take a heart container, even if I had no gun yet, over any ammolet. Including the Chaos Ammolet.

I'm not saying that this means they should be removed obviously.

They are not worth saving to 100 casings for. That much is an error imo.

They synergise well with the eldar blank, but that is all they have going for them.
100 casings is far too pricey for how bad they are since this item literally.. Allows you to do a tiny amount of damage to enemies in a room.. Twice per floor.


Edit: I realise there is synergy with Ammolets and the Eldar blank, but the eldar blank is the good item in this case, not the ammolets. It is also not an item you can count on showing up.


TLDR: The ammolets cost far too much in the shop for being easily in the bottom 5% of items in the game. When without the eldar blank, even the worst guns in-game are better to have.

Them being in chests the way they are is fine, but I think they should give you blanks when you pick them up as someone in the comments mentioned as a recommendation for it.

[AnemoneMeer]

Ever gotten an elder blank before? Trust me, ammolets + elder blank can be really, REALLY destructive.

They're not so good on their own, but a disintegrator or other damaging beam weapon, elder blank, and ammolets can pretty much obliterate anything in the game

[Nova Dusklight]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Ever gotten an elder blank before? Trust me, ammolets + elder blank can be really, REALLY destructive.

That doesn't mean the Ammolets ALONE should be 100.

The eldar blank is the item that's worth while.

There's synergy's for every item, that doesn't make them each worth more. (and I mean every item.. Thank you duct tape)

[Alexander Prime]

Agreed, with blanks as rare and valuable as they are the ammolets aren't as good as the game seems to think. Rather than adjusting their loot tier, though, I think I'd rather the ammolets give you an extra blank on pickup. This would even things out for me.

[Nova Dusklight]

Originally posted by Alexander Prime:

Agreed, with blanks as rare and valuable as they are the ammolets aren't as good as the game seems to think. Rather than adjusting their loot tier, though, I think I'd rather the ammolets give you an extra blank on pickup. This would even things out for me.

One or more extra blanks on ammolet pickup would be nice.

Let's say the tier 1 ammolets gave one blank and the Chaos ammolet gave 3. That would make flawlessing that floor easier.

Even then though. 100 casings for a iffy effect and 1 blank isn't worth while.

The price needs to be adjusted in my opinion.

[Pantera]

1.when you get tableflip blank technique + ammolet you can rush through the rooms without any effort.
2. you dont have to buy them ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!

[Nova Dusklight]

Originally posted by Pantera:

1.when you get tableflip blank technique + ammolet you can rush through the rooms without any effort.
2. you dont have to buy them ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!

It's simply mentioning a balance issue to be looked at and talk about. Calm your butt cheeks :P

Again, no matter what synergies it has. They're 100 each. That's also near all that merchant sells, so no one ever uses him unless he has the eldar blank as well and you're crazy rich.

It wouldn't be murderous to ask that they at least give you some blanks for that floor on pickup like Isaac handles bomb items.

[Pantera]

but there is no balance issue, easily worth 100 with the right conditions.

[itssirtou]

Yeah the Ammolets probably shouldn't be black chest loot. Especially since it an effect that MIGHT happen and its trigger is expensive

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

Yeah the Ammolets probably shouldn't be black chest loot. Especially since it an effect that MIGHT happen and its trigger is expensive

Depends on the ammolet really. The chance of effect ones are pretty awful simply due to being RNG based on finite resources. Except the chaos one. Lodestone and gold are both definately worth the pricetag. Gold especially, but lodestone + elder blank can really, really mess up any adds or normal rooms. Especially ones with pits.

[itssirtou]

I haven't gotten the gold one yet. I just figured it would be bad based on Table Tech Money being so breathtakingly terrible.

When I saw it in the shop it was for ~120 casings, with an average of 3-4 blanks per floor I find it hard to believe it would pay off unless it drops a gold each time.

[AnemoneMeer]

Gold ammolet makes the blanks do damage. Not great, but damage.

With an elder blank, in any of the lategame bossfights, this is a godsend. Especially if you have a decent coolness stat and can thus gatling off elder blanks at a decent clip.

[Pantera]

turns out the blue guy does even sell the tabletechnique blank + ammolest at the same time!! and its just 78! so this is crazy strong.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/455236878687057160/CDE262513194F24B4D67A79BAC3D2A1795027C18/

[Bob]

Table tech blank synergizes like crazy with those things. The only worthless ammolet is the knockback one. Everything else is a free room clear with tables.

[srsface]

Originally posted by Bob:

Table tech blank synergizes like crazy with those things. The only worthless ammolet is the knockback one. Everything else is a free room clear with tables.

The knockback one is amazing on the lower floors where there's almost always pits for enemies to fall into, but I agree it's not exactly ideal.

I agree with YuukiRus they are kind of bad. The fire/poison ones are particularly useless.

I've had the Tabla Sutra page for blanks on kicking desks and the one that makes blanks do a bunch of extra damage before, and that was pretty fun. Still, it's the blanks on kicking tables that's the power item in this scenario. I would rather the icing on the cake items be cheaper and have the power item more expensive, if we're going to do any tweaking.

[Bob]

Originally posted by srs face:

Originally posted by Bob:

Table tech blank synergizes like crazy with those things. The only worthless ammolet is the knockback one. Everything else is a free room clear with tables.

The knockback one is amazing on the lower floors where there's almost always pits for enemies to fall into, but I agree it's not exactly ideal.

I agree with YuukiRus they are kind of bad. The fire/poison ones are particularly useless.

I've had the Tabla Sutra page for blanks on kicking desks and the one that makes blanks do a bunch of extra damage before, and that was pretty fun. Still, it's the blanks on kicking tables that's the power item in this scenario. I would rather the icing on the cake items be cheaper and have the power item more expensive, if we're going to do any tweaking.

Poison and fire combo on floor 4 and 5 decimates most enemies or at least gets them weak enough to finish off easily, so I don't agree that they are useless at all. They wont do jack against bosses, but room clearing it can be insanely good.