Everything is just too rare to enjoy (A sad love letter)

[Woof]

I love this game. 130 hours so far, 45/48 achievements, tons of enjoyment. Or at least, I want it to be enjoyable. But there is so much about this game that is just too frickin' rare. Rainbow chests? Zero in 130 hours. Glitched chests? 1 in 130 hours. Several guns/powerups 1 time each in 130 hours. Item combos (where they actually do something with the blue arrow up and enhance something) zero in 130 hours.

There's so much to love about this game, but I always feel like I'm only ever playing with the same 98% content with only a slim 2% variety each game. Hegemony Rifle? Probably 33% of all runs. Gas Mask / Blast Helmet? Probably 50% of all runs. Cool guns that actually do stuff? 0.001% of all runs.

It's so bad that you are literally punished for unlocking more things. More things = less chance of getting stuff that you want to get. And it's not like I'm getting some cool stuff instead of other cool stuff, no, I'm getting the Bomber gun, again. I'm getting the Poison-anything-gun-crap-from-the-alien, again. Oh look, another lower_case_r gun. Gee, sure would hate for something cool to happen instead.

I really, really love this game. And I'm not complaining about lack of content, I'm just saying that I don't really get to even use that content at all. How about an option to select a bit of starting gear? Or paying Hegemony Credits to increase "rare" drops by X% per run? Something, anything, please! To play 130 hours of the game and still have items "unknown" in my Ammonomicon (meaning, unlocked but never once acquired) since the moment I unlocked them 100+ hours ago is unbelievably frustrating.

Please devs, let me appreciate the work you put into this game. Let me play with my earned unlocked items. Let me see actual item/gun combos. Let me get back into that glitched chest level without playing another 130 hours to hope to find it again. Please help me love this game!

Edit: I wanted to add that I know how coolness works. I've had runs where I've smoked the cigs, had the sixth chamber, beaten floors 1 and 2 in a row without taking a single hit, etc. My point still stands.

[JellyPuff]

Weird, whenever i buy a gun or item at the breach, i'll find it during my next run at some point. Always.

Can't say, if that's also true for unlocks, which aren't purchased - haven't paid attention to those.

But i agree, that some things are just way too rare. In 62 hours, i've seen 1 glitched chest, 1 Old Man and NO Witches, Albern or rainbow chest.

Almost all roguelike/lites have this pacing issue early game, where almost every runs feels the same the first few floors and you start getting into a routine. While some say, it's just how roguelikes are, i argue against that - every run should feel different from the beginning. Slow, samey starts are a feature of this genre, that won't be missed.

Yes, EtG actually snuffs it up, by having some 1st chambers with green or better tier chests in them, but you're still inclined to use those higher tier guns (if it's actually a gun) for later chambers to conserve ammo.

[Fusha]

Man I haven't seen the lower-case r gun in ages

[wholehole]

I've been feeling very much the same the last few times I've played. I love the game but I guess the honeymoon period has finally worn off and the flaws in the game's structure are starting to become more apparent. OP pretty much nailed it so I won't repeat eveything again.

Take Isaac for instance. There are ways of stacking the odds more in your favor through how you play to increase your chances of getting better items. As success more or less hinges on the weapons you find in a run, it'd be awesome to see something similar here, rather than it just being a completely random crap shoot with the majority of weapon/item pool filled with stuff that mostly just does not cut it on the later floors.

I really want to keep playing into the 100's of hours, but it it's becoming increasingly difficult each time the Trash Cannon or Lower Case R show up after defeating the first boss.

[KingSepha]

Yeah this game's drop rate needs to increase. But I think we have to wait until EtG: Rebirth

[Fusha]

Originally posted by wholehole:

Take Isaac for instance. There are ways of stacking the odds more in your favor through how you play to increase your chances of getting better items. As success more or less hinges on the weapons you find in a run, it'd be awesome to see something similar here, rather than it just being a completely random crap shoot with the majority of weapon/item pool filled with stuff that mostly just does not cut it on the later floors.

Absolutely not
Gungeon is fun precisely because of the random variety of the hand it forces you to play; it makes you do your best with what you have. Good drops help, but are not a necessity.
Developers please do not listen to this objectively wrong orator and ignore any further feedback from them

[Fusha]

Originally posted by Cruellyricisti:

Yeah this game's drop rate needs to increase. But I think we have to wait until EtG: Rebirth

Complaint: "runs too samey"
"Solution": make game easier

no

[wholehole]

Originally posted by Fusha:

Absolutely not
Gungeon is fun precisely because of the random variety of the hand it forces you to play; it makes you do your best with what you have. Good drops help, but are not a necessity.
Developers please do not listen to this objectively wrong orator and ignore any further feedback from them

This is why I said 'success more or less hinges on...'. There's a great deal of skill that goes along with that as well. The problem is not picking up decent weapons turns a potentially fun 40-50 mins into a long slog through treacle whilst being slapped in the face with a wet sock.

Ever tried fighting the Treadnought with a Lower Case R, or limping through the fourth floor with the Mega Dowser? Not a fun way to spend your time I can tell you and similar situations happen more times than I care to count.

[JellyPuff]

Originally posted by wholehole:

Take Isaac for instance. There are ways of stacking the odds more in your favor through how you play to increase your chances of getting better items. As success more or less hinges on the weapons you find in a run, it'd be awesome to see something similar here, rather than it just being a completely random crap shoot with the majority of weapon/item pool filled with stuff that mostly just does not cut it on the later floors.

Have you ever actually played TBoI? You're average casino at Vegas has less RNG.
Wether you win or loose in EtG - consistently - hinges entirely on your skill, while in TBoI, you sometimes walk into a room and get riketyrekt without you even having a chance in the first place.

"Then how people do 100+ Eden-streaks?" Keep dat Emperor-card and jump down to Sheol with The Polaroid, if your run sucks.

Speaking of Eden, perhaps all EtG needs is a char like him, to make the first few floors more interesting. I'd still vote for either slightly more ammo or gun drops, so i have a reason to use anything but my starter-pistol early game. Though, there's most likely a better way to keep balance and challenge, while making the start of a run more interesting.

[Fusha]

Originally posted by wholehole:

This is why I said 'success more or less hinges on...'. There's a great deal of skill that goes along with that as well. The problem is not picking up decent weapons turns a potentially fun 40-50 mins into a long slog through treacle whilst being slapped in the face with a wet sock.

Ever tried fighting the Treadnought with a Lower Case R, or limping through the fourth floor with the Mega Dowser? Not a fun way to spend your time, I can tell you.

???
How can you play roguelites and NOT enjoy doing your absolute best in a crappy situation
You are doing it terribly wrong

[Toph]

Originally posted by Fusha:

Complaint: "runs too samey"
"Solution": make game easier

no

I think the people saying the game is too "same-y" are pretty much the result of the game being too hard, tbh. I can see how continual failure and/or a lack of progress would certainly start to make someone feel like the game is repetitive.

Honestly, the game probably does need an easy mode. I think that would alleviate a lot of people's frustrations.

Also, OP, I totally agree. Though I've seen a majority of the items in the game, I still haven't seen a glitched chest or a rainbow chest. According to the wiki, there's even some NPCs who show up exclusively within the Gungeon that I still haven't even laid eyes on too.

[Toph]

Originally posted by Jellypuff:

Speaking of Eden, perhaps all EtG needs is a char like him, to make the first few floors more interesting. I'd still vote for either slightly more ammo or gun drops, so i have a reason to use anything but my starter-pistol early game. Though, there's most likely a better way to keep balance and challenge, while making the start of a run more interesting.

Thankfully, the game already has a mechanic similar to Eden.

You have to beat the game once first before you can rescue the NPC who offers it, however.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Toph:

the game already has a mechanic similar to Eden

The NPC you're reffering to is nothing like Eden. You just keep getting random guns you can't keep throughout the run. You don't get to start with free passives/guns in gungeon.

[Woof]

FYI I'm not saying the game is too hard. I don't want the cool guns because they make the game easier. I've already beaten the game with the basic pistols only, sword only, had runs to the end with nothing but crap weapons. I just want to play with the cool unlockables because they're cool. The devs went through a ton of work to add in all sorts of things to the game and I'd like to be able to appreciate it more. I'm not asking for a 'win-more' solution, I'm just asking to be able to acquire and use the items in the game, beyond the same 30~ that I see in 90% of my runs.

Did you know that they went way, way beyond what you'd expect for this game's mechanics? That piercing weapons deal subsequently less damage to each additional target past the first? That your shell casings reveal invisible paths? The 8 million game/movie/tv/culture references? The item combos that exist? This game is an artwork labor of love; I just want to experience more of it. Getting to experience over 50% of the game only once in my entire 130 hours, in a game made so wonderfully is extremely disappointing.

[Toph]

Originally posted by Tom:

Originally posted by Toph:

the game already has a mechanic similar to Eden

The NPC you're reffering to is nothing like Eden. You just keep getting random guns you can't keep throughout the run. You don't get to start with free passives/guns in gungeon.

ok

Originally posted by wholehole:

Ever tried fighting the Treadnought with a Lower Case R, or limping through the fourth floor with the Mega Dowser? Not a fun way to spend your time I can tell you and similar situations happen more times than I care to count.

So, I find this to be a common misconception people have with the game.

Yes, Lower Case R is a mostly average weapon, but combat does not exclusively revolve around the power of your strongest gun. The more weapons you have, the more potential DPS you have in general.

If you simply blast away with your favorite gun and wait for reloads, you're doing it wrong.

You should be rapidly cycling between all of your weapons and unloading each of them--or any that are practical for the situation--especially during boss fights. Why? Because once you reload any weapon, you'll also reload ALL other weapons that were also empty.

So, essentially, even having an assortment of average weapons will still up your DPS and lethality, in most cases, as long as you utilize them.

(On a side note, I'm not even sure you have to reload a weapon in some cases. It seems like guns will simply reload themselves if they aren't currently your active gun for some set period of time--usually a few seconds.)

[Man_CRNA]

Yeah, I've got 170 hours in and I feel pretty much the same way as OP. A lot of stuff is just too damn rare. I also have never seen a rainbow chest, ever. Never had a glitch chest. Never even met some of the NPCs.

Ideas listed by OP are good. Id pay heg credits to up my percentage of rare drops. Or to be able to unlock loadouts before you go down? Cool. Or themed runs? What if could only pick three out of ten guns available at start and have guaranteed only bullet modifiers drop from chests. AWESOME. Bouncy bullets, heavy bullets, ghost bullets, scattershot, fire, poison, freeze. Tell me that would not rock your balls?

I do not at all think that the guns you get determine whether you win or not. At least not to the fifth level or killing characters pasts. Bullet hell is another story, but I don't always try to beat bullet hell every run. The dragun, I could honestly do it with pretty worthless guns, but that's not the point. The point is I want to experience the AWESOME guns and the AWESOME synergies that exist in this game, and I wholeheartedly agree with OP that those runs seem far and few between.

Love the game though...