Finally distilled my complaints about EtG

[Zeks]

After long consideration, complaints and rants I realized what I really dislike about the game:levels 1,2 and 3 are mechanical work.They pose little to no challenge and, for a player that learned to flawless them once, present no challenge at all. They are just there to waste his time.What makes it even worse - even if you find a good gun, you are forced to save it till level 3 at least before you start using it in rooms.

This makes first fifteen minutes of every run a mind numbing almost auto-pilot experience. Bosses are somewhat better, but rooms are incredibly boring and you are forced to go through all of those to collect chests.

This is my main complaint. Ammo requirements and game being incredibly stingy with ammo drops make first levels a bore.

[Smakit]

Publicado originalmente por Misery:

I mean, something like Isaac has the same problem for alot of players... it's a bit too easy, and you tend not to have any real obstacles early on. But it gives you alot to DO.

Eh, I don't know. I love Isaac and enjoy this game, but even with all the 'extra' rooms they aren't really any different. Once you are good at the game, you have a pretty well set logic of what to do and follow it.

Everything is extremely easy early on, but slow, which is why I hate choosing low damage characters or skipping devil deals. While being overpowered is fun, it also leads to it being easy, just with cooler effects. So often if you do well with deals, the late game isn't hugely difficult either. Same sort of thing, just a different way.

I'd say best would be something like Happiness suggested - some kind of randomly set stuff. You sort of get it now, but with only a gun to go with, so it feels like you screw yourself. Maybe they could have it so if you use the shortcut AND you have beat the past/extra levels with that character, then you get roughly the same amount of random guns/passives as you would have if you took the time to get there.

Doesn't have to be an exact even trade, could still make it better in the end to do the long way. Maybe you get only 1 passive / random gun per floor, and maybe no/low casings [~50 max], to simulate getting each chest each floor but nothing from the shopes / no secrets / etc. It could be tweaked of course, but would at least make it more sensible to use a shortcut but not until after you 'beat' the game.

[Xvalli]

+1
I just love this game for the fun of when u get an awesome gun and get to experiment with new guns

Publicado originalmente por Smakit:

Publicado originalmente por Misery:

I mean, something like Isaac has the same problem for alot of players... it's a bit too easy, and you tend not to have any real obstacles early on. But it gives you alot to DO.

Eh, I don't know. I love Isaac and enjoy this game, but even with all the 'extra' rooms they aren't really any different. Once you are good at the game, you have a pretty well set logic of what to do and follow it.

Everything is extremely easy early on, but slow, which is why I hate choosing low damage characters or skipping devil deals. While being overpowered is fun, it also leads to it being easy, just with cooler effects. So often if you do well with deals, the late game isn't hugely difficult either. Same sort of thing, just a different way.

I'd say best would be something like Happiness suggested - some kind of randomly set stuff. You sort of get it now, but with only a gun to go with, so it feels like you screw yourself. Maybe they could have it so if you use the shortcut AND you have beat the past/extra levels with that character, then you get roughly the same amount of random guns/passives as you would have if you took the time to get there.

Doesn't have to be an exact even trade, could still make it better in the end to do the long way. Maybe you get only 1 passive / random gun per floor, and maybe no/low casings [~50 max], to simulate getting each chest each floor but nothing from the shopes / no secrets / etc. It could be tweaked of course, but would at least make it more sensible to use a shortcut but not until after you 'beat' the game.

[Misery]

Publicado originalmente por Smakit:

Publicado originalmente por Misery:

I mean, something like Isaac has the same problem for alot of players... it's a bit too easy, and you tend not to have any real obstacles early on. But it gives you alot to DO.

Eh, I don't know. I love Isaac and enjoy this game, but even with all the 'extra' rooms they aren't really any different. Once you are good at the game, you have a pretty well set logic of what to do and follow it.

Everything is extremely easy early on, but slow, which is why I hate choosing low damage characters or skipping devil deals. While being overpowered is fun, it also leads to it being easy, just with cooler effects. So often if you do well with deals, the late game isn't hugely difficult either. Same sort of thing, just a different way.

I'd say best would be something like Happiness suggested - some kind of randomly set stuff. You sort of get it now, but with only a gun to go with, so it feels like you screw yourself. Maybe they could have it so if you use the shortcut AND you have beat the past/extra levels with that character, then you get roughly the same amount of random guns/passives as you would have if you took the time to get there.

Doesn't have to be an exact even trade, could still make it better in the end to do the long way. Maybe you get only 1 passive / random gun per floor, and maybe no/low casings [~50 max], to simulate getting each chest each floor but nothing from the shopes / no secrets / etc. It could be tweaked of course, but would at least make it more sensible to use a shortcut but not until after you 'beat' the game.

My point isnt to compare Isaac DIRECTLY to this game.

Part of what I was saying was that this game, with it's higher difficulty AND if it had more of the interesting rooms, might really work. Isaac's own low difficulty has literally nothing to do with it. It's just the one that everyone recognizes and a game that already uses the concept, so I used it as an example.

My overall point is: The game is too damn empty, and much of the time, nothing's really happening. Wandering from room to room takes an oddly long amount of time for a game with such a great fast-travel system, and because of scaling, mopping up weak foes takes too bloody long unless you want to waste tons of unnecessary ammo on them (and even then, it still often takes longer than it should). Those moments arent exciting or interesting at all. And that's fine, every game has non-exciting moments. Cant really avoid that. But there's just too many in this one.

In the end, the effect is that each run is very same-y but also kinda slow at the same time. Not because of a lack of crazy synergies (it's not like games in this genre MUST have those, plenty of them absolutely do not focus on that at all), but because it's just "enter room, shoot guys, wander slowly to next room, enter room, shoot guys, wander slowly to next room...." except that it has a harder time with this than, say, NT (which covers it up with sheer speed and chaos and mostly removes the exploration aspect in favor of dramatically smaller areas). There isnt anything to break it up at all. It almost feels grindy at times.... I dunno if anyone else is getting that, but that does occur to me a bit.

Honestly, I am surprised by the amount of people saying the game becomes boring rather quickly as you master it. I mean, look at most other games with a grinding mechanic to 100% completion. what would you expect once you have accomplished exactly that? The rogue-like mechanic for this game is to make each run different to extend the playtime to make acheiving 100% a task that requires patience and diligence through randomness and challenges. if anything this is a common core strategy for mostly all video games in general.

The thing about this is, it doesnt exactly say something GOOD about the game.

If someone is playing a game JUST to get 100%, and not out of genuine enjoyment of the game and wanting to play it for the sake of doing so (which honestly is something that's always baffled me).... it's not as good as it could be. I mean, Isaac & NT are certainly overblown examples, but they are so because they keep people hooked, in many cases, LONG after 100% has been hit. The gameplay itself, by it's own merits, keeps people wanting to come back more and more. And of course there are those players (such as myself) that never find 100%-ing a game to be a hook to begin with; in my case I need that gameplay *first*, above all else; locked content isnt going to encourage me much, unless I already know that I'd keep playing a bunch after reaching 100%. THEN I'd want the locked stuff because I know I'll get alot of use out of it.

This game to me sure as hell has the potential to be like those two in terms of having that "hook", but... right now, it isnt there. It's like it's ALMOST there, which is kinda frustrating to see. And so some players are indeed getting a bit bored. I'm not, but I'm also not playing it as much as I otherwise would, as I know if I do that right now I'll get burned out on it, dont want that to happen.

Nothing to do but wait though. I'm sure the devs have further plans for this game; I cant imagine they wouldnt!

[Pantera]

well op is not very smart. he complains that the floors are to easy but refuses to use shortcuts because he cant get the stuff from the earlier floors. Thats why the earlier floors are there! to equip you for the later floors. Since he says those floors are to easy he should not have problems to simply use the shortcuts. And then there is even another Option to use the Hero shrine which would solve all your problems.

tl;dr: op´s rant is just nonsense and he should get smarter.

[Guywars]

The ammo drops are random so sometimes you won't see any and sometimes you're gonna be loaded with ammo. Shops and bosses usually have them too.

As for the first 3 floors being too easy that's a side effect to becoming good at the game, even the other floors will become easy if you keep playing this game a lot. It happens in every single game.

[KingSepha]

Publicado originalmente por Zeks:

Publicado originalmente por ewakhakineewahaninja:

The first level is suppose to be a warm-up for the later levels. You really shouldn't use a gun outside of your starter weapon on the first (and ideally the second) floor at all, except when combated against the bosses.

And that's what makes them a bore. Also, they are an opposite of warmup as they lull my fingers into sleep and make me make mistakes when the game actually picks up the pace.

I second that motion.

The short of it, and I don't care how anyone counters this, you have to run through the first 2 floors using your default gun. It does not make the game more challenging, I am still able to make it all the way to chamber 4 without being touched once, but it just drags down the excitement in the "game" to a murmur.

The hardcores, like at the beginning of this thread quickly dismiss it as someone sucks, get better; or having fun isn't a part of the game, it's a bullet hell rougelike RNGesus blah blah blah, without really considering that a game should be fun first and foremost.

Anyone experienced in EtG quickly learn that the first 3 chambers are a drag, and need to be in order to profit in the last 2(3) chambers.

[Guywars]

Publicado originalmente por Cruellyricisti:

Publicado originalmente por Zeks:

And that's what makes them a bore. Also, they are an opposite of warmup as they lull my fingers into sleep and make me make mistakes when the game actually picks up the pace.

I second that motion.

The short of it, and I don't care how anyone counters this, you have to run through the first 2 floors using your default gun. It does not make the game more challenging, I am still able to make it all the way to chamber 4 without being touched once, but it just drags down the excitement in the "game" to a murmur.

The hardcores, like at the beginning of this thread quickly dismiss it as someone sucks, get better; or having fun isn't a part of the game, it's a bullet hell rougelike RNGesus blah blah blah, without really considering that a game should be fun first and foremost.

Anyone experienced in EtG quickly learn that the first 3 chambers are a drag, and need to be in order to profit in the last 2(3) chambers.

Making the game boring by using your standard gun for 3 floors is your choice. I only do it for the first chamber, then i'll use any weapon i have unless it's some insanely strong gun that i'll need against the boss.

[KingSepha]

Publicado originalmente por Senpai Plz:

Making the game boring by using your standard gun for 3 floors is your choice. I only do it for the first chamber, then i'll use any weapon i have unless it's some insanely strong gun that i'll need against the boss.

I said first 2 floors, and you immediately afterwards admitted you do it as well, if you find a particulary amazing gun at least.

Which sort of confirms this rant that keeps popping up from time to time.

The experienced players hoard their guns, yes it is a choice, that in this case directly coincides with experience. If you know what you're doing, you've learned to hoard guns.

If you find x/y/z boss infuriating and you just can't seem to get past level x/boss y, then you haven't yet learned to hoard your guns, and grind the first couple floors.

The issue I think that the higher tier players are gravitating around is, if you want to do better in the end of a run, you make the beginning of the run as boring as you can possibly make it. So, every run ends up starting off exactly the same for the first 20-30 minutes. Boring. But it just so happens that, as of the current update, that is the winning formula.

[Dorin]

Publicado originalmente por Cruellyricisti:

Publicado originalmente por Senpai Plz:

Making the game boring by using your standard gun for 3 floors is your choice. I only do it for the first chamber, then i'll use any weapon i have unless it's some insanely strong gun that i'll need against the boss.

I said first 2 floors, and you immediately afterwards admitted you do it as well, if you find a particulary amazing gun at least.

Which sort of confirms this rant that keeps popping up from time to time.

The experienced players hoard their guns, yes it is a choice, that in this case directly coincides with experience. If you know what you're doing, you've learned to hoard guns.

If you find x/y/z boss infuriating and you just seem to get past level x/boss y, then you haven't yet learned to hoard your guns, and grind the first couple floors.

The issue I think that the higher tier players are gravitating around is, if you want to do better in the end of a run, you make the beginning of the run as boring as you can possibly make it. So, every run ends up starting off exactly the same for the first 20-30 minutes. Boring. But it just so happens that, as of the current update, that is the winning formula.

This.

I currently just use the starting gun until chamber 5 (except bosses if possible, to guarantee flawless), and save everything for bullet hell which is the real deal.

[Guywars]

Again, if you guys want to play like that just to win every run, go ahead and do it.
It's a rogue like, randomness is a big factor and i personally like to play with it. If the game gives me a brown chest i'll open it, if the game gives me a fightsabre after 1 floor i'll use it.
What i meant before is that i won't use weapons like The Stinger or any missile launcher to clear rooms because they don't have much ammo and they're not efficient.
Maybe i cared about winning every run when i had a ton of stuff to unlock, but now i just want to play the game as randomly as possible.

[KingSepha]

Publicado originalmente por Senpai Plz:

Again, if you guys want to play like that just to win every run, go ahead and do it.
It's a rogue like, randomness is a big factor and i personally like to play with it. If the game gives me a brown chest i'll open it, if the game gives me a fightsabre after 1 floor i'll use it.
What i meant before is that i won't use weapons like The Stinger or any missile launcher to clear rooms because they don't have much ammo and they're not efficient.
Maybe i cared about winning every run when i had a ton of stuff to unlock, but now i just want to play the game as randomly as possible.

It sounds as though you are trying to have fun playing this game. That is strictly forbidden in this community, please exit and do not return.

My name is the Lorax, and I speak for the community. /s

[srsface]

>complains game is easy after mastering it
>thinks game is bad therefore

That's stupid. If you didn't enjoy the experience toward obtaining mastery, okay then complain all you want. If your issue is "I got good at this game and it's not as fun anymore," well, welcome to video games. I've kind of hit the wall myself, but I enjoyed getting to this point immensely so, game is fine.

[Hoodlum]

Publicado originalmente por Carrier Pidgeons:

I've noticed that you get a purple lantern per floor, more or less. That could be an NPC.

Purple lantern? I see these randomly on some floors, what's the significance?

[Guywars]

Purple/Green "lanterns" mean that behind that door there's an npc/gun munch,er/ shrine

[Hoodlum]

Ah ok, thanks.