Going After The Resourceful Rat Is A Real Drag

[Tyler]

It's not the difficulty of the boss. I'd happily throw myself at him and Advanced Dragun over and over if I didn't have to spend 15+ minutes every run just getting to the Rat's Lair. I have over 400 hours in this game and have beaten and unlocked everything aside two Rat items and the Advanced Dragun and its reward.

[Sir Tontonolous]

You do make a fair point. Perhaps, after the first time you beat the rat, getting to him is slightly easier the next few runs. You really have to go out of your way to meet the ♥♥♥♥♥♥, and I can understand why, but after the first few times, it feels tedious.

[wafflekitty]

What do you mean? Six rooms is hard to navigate? His floor is the smallest floor in the game.

[Tyler]

I'm meant from the start of a run to the fight. Doing the floors, often including Oubliette because I'll buy nothing from the shops to save for the Rat Key and just doing floors 1 & 2 I'll often find myself a little short. Hoping for decent guns, because Phase 2 Rat is a healthy boss. It's just a lot of time between attempts is what I'm saying.

[ZexxCrine]

no. There was a time that I agreed with what you are saying but that was before I could beat the rat consistantly. If you ask me, the rat should be even harder to get to than he already is by some metric. either that or the punchout mechanics of the fight need to be nerfed. as the rat currently stands, beating him earns you a won run with no more challenge left in the run. the boon for beating the rat is just that imense. not every run should get to be a rat run. it would be far too gamebreaking if the rat was easy to get to and required no time sink. you get a minimum of 2 keys, a bunch of ammo, enough heallth drops to fully revitilize you, like 5 drops that are usually in the A-S tier range, armor, glass stones, and a pick of 1-4 of some of the most busted items in the game, one of which is an infinate ammo gun that basically freezes enemies and can chain spread the freeze around.

I find myself turning runs that COULD be rat killers into normal runs because the rest of the game is just not a challenge at all afterwards.

[Cerise]

Nope.
It takes very little effort to have the option to fight him, especially if you can just steal the key.
Even more so if you're doing a Rainbow Run because it's basically just a free chest and you can leave without fighting him.

I will say it's annoying that ALL of the loot you get is based on how well you do in the third phase. But now that I've gotten better at the punch-out stuff it's not so bad.

[Sammich]

Yeah, the combination of buying/stealing the key, finding the trapdoor and then going through the maze is a real pain. I was relieved to learn that the new secret boss from "Farewell to Arms" is much quicker and easier to get to.

[Tyler]

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

no. There was a time that I agreed with what you are saying but that was before I could beat the rat consistantly. If you ask me, the rat should be even harder to get to than he already is by some metric. either that or the punchout mechanics of the fight need to be nerfed. as the rat currently stands, beating him earns you a won run with no more challenge left in the run. the boon for beating the rat is just that imense. not every run should get to be a rat run. it would be far too gamebreaking if the rat was easy to get to and required no time sink. you get a minimum of 2 keys, a bunch of ammo, enough heallth drops to fully revitilize you, like 5 drops that are usually in the A-S tier range, armor, glass stones, and a pick of 1-4 of some of the most busted items in the game, one of which is an infinate ammo gun that basically freezes enemies and can chain spread the freeze around.

I find myself turning runs that COULD be rat killers into normal runs because the rest of the game is just not a challenge at all afterwards.

Well it's just not fun for me. I got my unlocks, so I don't have go there anymore. I know I can beat him over and over if I wanted to though. You enjoy. Personally I get board with infinite ammo guns. You end up using them for the rest of the run. Little to no reason to use other ones.

Originally posted by Nathan:

Nope.
It takes very little effort to have the option to fight him, especially if you can just steal the key.
Even more so if you're doing a Rainbow Run because it's basically just a free chest and you can leave without fighting him.

I will say it's annoying that ALL of the loot you get is based on how well you do in the third phase. But now that I've gotten better at the punch-out stuff it's not so bad.

Rainbow mode wasn't thing when Rat's Lair was added so I don't think it's fair add it to the equation. And that's assuming I'd be doing Rat attempts in Rainbow mode, which I wasn't. But as I said above. I got what wanted from Rat, so it's of little importance now.

Originally posted by Sammich:

Yeah, the combination of buying/stealing the key, finding the trapdoor and then going through the maze is a real pain. I was relieved to learn that the new secret boss from "Farewell to Arms" is much quicker and easier to get to.

It's an alright floor. One thing I would change is it being a fixed layout. More fun if it's random like the rest of the game.

[Sombreval]

I just hate so much his Punch-out phase... And that's the one to get all the cool stuff :'(

I have 200h of playtime and soon to unlock everything and still I think I will never beat him in this phase. I just don't get it, and it's fast and without mercy. And since I fight him only once in a while I never get better. I wish there was some training mode somewhere.

[Cerise]

Originally posted by Sombreval:

I just hate so much his Punch-out phase... And that's the one to get all the cool stuff :'(

I have 200h of playtime and soon to unlock everything and still I think I will never beat him in this phase. I just don't get it, and it's fast and without mercy. And since I fight him only once in a while I never get better. I wish there was some training mode somewhere.

Some tips I have learned from doing him a crap ton of times.

Play defensively and use block(W) exclusively.
Try to get 3 super stacks to knock him out each phase.
First phase: Block everything until he taunts, then hit him during his flash.
Second phase: Block his first swing, hit him during his second swing.
Third phase: When winding up his brass knuckles hit him at the top of his third swing.

https://twitter.com/CeriseAviaire/status/1117781000107511811?s=20

[BOYCOTT]

i can assure you i'll literally never bother attempting this boss fight no matter how long i play this game for, it's just not worth the effort in the first place.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by BOYCOTT:

i can assure you i'll literally never bother attempting this boss fight no matter how long i play this game for, it's just not worth the effort in the first place.

Eh, it's all relative. If you're playing challenge mode, I actually think including the rat in your run makes it easier - at least if you can beat him, including the punch-out phase, consistently. The rewards for beating him can make the challenge mode Dragun fight substantially easier, if not outright trivial if you can juggle two invincibility items, and the rat only gets one modifier that sometimes makes no difference to the fight at all. (Of course, nowadays with the Gunslinger and rainbow runs beating challenge mode isn't nearly as formidable a task as it once was, but still.)

Anyway, I definitely agree with the TC. Particularly regarding the punch-out phase. As someone who had never played punch-out before, being introduced to a whole new gameplay style and having no way to practice it outside of starting a new run and dragging myself back to the rat was seriously annoying for a while; best I could really do was study videos of successful runs and try to learn the timing, which certainly helped, but was no substitute for doing it myself. I can 5-key him consistently now (and could probably 6-key him if I cared to), but it took way too long to get there.

[Cerise]

Another problem is the timer along with the rng.
Had a run the other day where he spent most of phase 2 and 3 doing uncounterable attacks and scarfing down cheese.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/DoctorSteve/screenshot/824631518770211176

[FableNights]

To be fair, the reason why it takes so much to get to Rat is because beating him in Punch Out essentially means you win the run.

In addition to all the items he drops from you beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of him, if you can get 4 keys, you get his 4 items which are all amazing. Those 4 items alone can win you a run, everything else he gives and what you already have is just icing on the cake.

[AshtinPeaks]

Originally posted by LunarFrost:

To be fair, the reason why it takes so much to get to Rat is because beating him in Punch Out essentially means you win the run.

In addition to all the items he drops from you beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of him, if you can get 4 keys, you get his 4 items which are all amazing. Those 4 items alone can win you a run, everything else he gives and what you already have is just icing on the cake.

This exactly the rat floor is 20 times. More rewarding then the other secret floors. It takes more effort to get more rewards is my look on it.

[Cerise]

Originally posted by LunarFrost:

To be fair, the reason why it takes so much to get to Rat is because beating him in Punch Out essentially means you win the run.

In addition to all the items he drops from you beating the ♥♥♥♥ out of him, if you can get 4 keys, you get his 4 items which are all amazing. Those 4 items alone can win you a run, everything else he gives and what you already have is just icing on the cake.

The sad part is that Resourceful Rat is the only real endgame boss fight that's worth doing more than once because he actually rewards you.
Already did the pasts twice on each character? No point in doing them.
Already killed Lich and did the gunslinger? No point in going to bullet hell.
Already slain the Advanced Dragun? No point in feeding the serpent.

Floors 1, Bonus, 2, Bonus, 3 and then finally Rat are the meta.