6th Chamber is a Joke

[D-ray]

Im not going to tollerate people who say git good or things like that.

As the title says, the Bullet Hell, or Sixth Chamber, is a joke! Unfair and not balanced for me.
Ok i got it should be the last and hell-based level, but this is getting ridiculus.

Saving ammo is ok, but if your weapons sucks, you will never pass it anyway. Also, as someone said before, it ruins the plot of the game sometimes.

The amount of dead ends is unfair! Even you save ammo, they will make you waste them! Adding the waste of Hearts and Blanks!

There are too many spam based enemies! Such as the Devil Shotguns and the Blue Fire Balls should to be less and be better placed in the rooms.

The drop rate is almost missing from this floor! You need to be really lucky to find something in there.

The boss is almost ok, not that hard but has the same problem of other bosses: the minions.

What do you think about it?

[Al]

what did you expect? the chamber beyond the last one, beyond time, to be like any other chamber before?

also, if you won't accept people who tell you to ''git gud or thinks like that'' then why do you even bring this up?

[mellamoger]

Originally posted by D-ray:

Saving ammo is ok, but if your weapons sucks, you will never pass it anyway

If on 6nd floor you don't have decent weapons, you have not played really well (and no, RNG doesn't screw you).

Originally posted by D-ray:

The amount of dead ends is unfair! Even you save ammo, they will make you waste them! Adding the waste of Hearts and Blanks!

False. The 6th floor is the most trustable of all floors, as it always has the same pattern:
- The starting room has three paths. Two of the paths will merge and lead to the second junction, while one of the paths will consist of a single dead end room. (take the middle path, as 90% of times will lead to the next junction; 10% of times it will be directly a dead end)
- The second junction has three more paths. Two of the paths will form a loop, while one of the paths will lead to the third junction (always take a side path so you will have 50% chance of taking the right way; if on the way you suspect it's doing a loop with the middle path, go back and take the other side path)
- The third junction has three more paths. Two of the paths will reach dead ends, while one of the paths will lead to the Lich. (this one is pure chance, so no advice here)

Originally posted by D-ray:

There are too many spam based enemies! Such as the Devil Shotguns and the Blue Fire Balls should to be less and be better placed in the rooms.

This is the last and final floor, what would you expect? To be as easy as the first one?

Originally posted by D-ray:

The drop rate is almost missing from this floor! You need to be really lucky to find something in there.

If you are not getting ammo it's because you're not getting cursed. Get cursed and you'll get tons of ammo to fight those enemies. Also, search for mechanisms of increasing your coolness.

Originally posted by D-ray:

The boss is almost ok, not that hard but has the same problem of other bosses: the minions.

It only has minions on his 1st phase, and even so there is a chance he even doesn't spawn them.

Originally posted by D-ray:

What do you think about it?

I don't know Rick... but I think I just gonna leave an intollerable: git gut.

[Rare]

It's okay. It's really easy if you've got something like Gunther or BSG

[D-ray]

Originally posted by mellamoger:

Originally posted by D-ray:

Saving ammo is ok, but if your weapons sucks, you will never pass it anyway

If on 6nd floor you don't have decent weapons, you have not played really well (and no, RNG doesn't screw you).

Originally posted by D-ray:

The amount of dead ends is unfair! Even you save ammo, they will make you waste them! Adding the waste of Hearts and Blanks!

False. The 6th floor is the most trustable of all floors, as it always has the same pattern:
- The starting room has three paths. Two of the paths will merge and lead to the second junction, while one of the paths will consist of a single dead end room. (take the middle path, as 90% of times will lead to the next junction; 10% of times it will be directly a dead end)
- The second junction has three more paths. Two of the paths will form a loop, while one of the paths will lead to the third junction (always take a side path so you will have 50% chance of taking the right way; if on the way you suspect it's doing a loop with the middle path, go back and take the other side path)
- The third junction has three more paths. Two of the paths will reach dead ends, while one of the paths will lead to the Lich. (this one is pure chance, so no advice here)

Originally posted by D-ray:

There are too many spam based enemies! Such as the Devil Shotguns and the Blue Fire Balls should to be less and be better placed in the rooms.

This is the last and final floor, what would you expect? To be as easy as the first one?

Originally posted by D-ray:

The drop rate is almost missing from this floor! You need to be really lucky to find something in there.

If you are not getting ammo it's because you're not getting cursed. Get cursed and you'll get tons of ammo to fight those enemies. Also, search for mechanisms of increasing your coolness.

Originally posted by D-ray:

The boss is almost ok, not that hard but has the same problem of other bosses: the minions.

It only has minions on his 1st phase, and even so there is a chance he even doesn't spawn them.

Originally posted by D-ray:

What do you think about it?

I don't know Rick... but I think I just gonna leave an intollerable: git gut.

1- What do you mean with: "You didn't played very well"?
The only things that rewards you for playing good are the boss rooms, with the Master Rounds. Weapons and drops are not affected (unless you don't have those particular items).

2- Yes, everybody knows that. You can find it written on the Ammonomicon, on the walls, even my grandma once told me this.

Seriuosly, how can you manage to know it without going on the Wiki?

3- I didn't said I want it to be easier, i know how it works. I just said that the amount of those enemies is unfair. Some room patterns barely leaves you a couple of seconds before getting cornered (Again, if you have good weapons, you will find it obliviuosly easier).
Using blanks? Sure! But its hard to not try to keep them for something like the boss or for harder rooms.

4- I know the ammo trick, but as i said, if you dont have good weapons is really hard anyway to not get hit.
About: "Try looking for those mechanisms". I want to ask you, how can you find a specific item in a roguelike? ',:0

5- I said is ok, but how he can never spawn them, can sometimes only doing so. And trust me, it does it.

6- UNACCEPTABLE!!!

[Apologies for any grammatical errors, Im not an expert]

[D-ray]

Originally posted by G|_!tch:

what did you expect? the chamber beyond the last one, beyond time, to be like any other chamber before?

also, if you won't accept people who tell you to ''git gud or thinks like that'' then why do you even bring this up?

ITS A FREAKING BULLET HELL ITS BOUND TO BE HARD!!! AAAHHHH!!!

Also, i've seen some discussions like this before, and i always found some people spamming "git gud noob" or things like that. Perphaps, i prefer a suggestion on how should i improve instead of a stupid troll message.

Originally posted by Mtn Dew Baja Blast:

It's okay. It's really easy if you've got something like Gunther or BSG

Luck based victory...
I'm not particurally lucky on finding good weaponary. The best item i can find in a run are the Silver Rounds...

D:

[Al]

i actually went into the bullet hell with D Tier guns a number of times, the lil bomber and the lower caser are two for example. it hasn't been exactly that difficult, because having crappy guns doesn't really matter. what MATTERS are your dodging abilities.

better weapons kill faster but they don't save you from damage, only in an indirect manner. you could use the klobbe and yes, it would take an eternity to beat the lich with it, but it is possible, aslong as you evade his attacks. guns don't matter, ammo does.

the reason people spam ''git gud' and whatnot is not because of spite or memery, its because its true. the bullet hell is hard. crazily hard. back when i was playing EtG nonstop i would get to the bullet hell, but could easily evaluate based on my amount of health and ammo going in whether i was doomed to fail or succeed, alot of times jumping the bullet hell altoghether and beating the past instead out of fear of loosing. even now i doubt my abilities to finish the hell consistently, even if i wouldn't be so rusty as i am now.

the strategy guide for the bullet hell is the same as for any other floor, minus the chest and shops you get. it is a place where all your rescources have to be drained, with no regards for longevity, which when you think about it, makes this the easiest floor as you have to worry alot less about your ammo consumption. what you do have to worry about alot more is your survival.

the bullet hell isn't exactly a joke, but your final test so to speak, the place in which you have to bring your A game and i wouldn't be suprised if that was the intent the devs had when designing this floor. after all, what else is the final boss supposed to be? anything else would be inferior in my opinion.

[D-ray]

Originally posted by G|_!tch:

i actually went into the bullet hell with D Tier guns a number of times, the lil bomber and the lower caser are two for example. it hasn't been exactly that difficult, because having crappy guns doesn't really matter. what MATTERS are your dodging abilities.

better weapons kill faster but they don't save you from damage, only in an indirect manner. you could use the klobbe and yes, it would take an eternity to beat the lich with it, but it is possible, aslong as you evade his attacks. guns don't matter, ammo does.

the reason people spam ''git gud' and whatnot is not because of spite or memery, its because its true. the bullet hell is hard. crazily hard. back when i was playing EtG nonstop i would get to the bullet hell, but could easily evaluate based on my amount of health and ammo going in whether i was doomed to fail or succeed, alot of times jumping the bullet hell altoghether and beating the past instead out of fear of loosing. even now i doubt my abilities to finish the hell consistently, even if i wouldn't be so rusty as i am now.

the strategy guide for the bullet hell is the same as for any other floor, minus the chest and shops you get. it is a place where all your rescources have to be drained, with no regards for longevity, which when you think about it, makes this the easiest floor as you have to worry alot less about your ammo consumption. what you do have to worry about alot more is your survival.

the bullet hell isn't exactly a joke, but your final test so to speak, the place in which you have to bring your A game and i wouldn't be suprised if that was the intent the devs had when designing this floor. after all, what else is the final boss supposed to be? anything else would be inferior in my opinion.

I think the final boss is the better made thing in the 6th Chamber.
However, i dont find it impossible, I find it too hard and frustrating instesd of the other chambers.
YES, YES, I know its the hardest level!
But comparing it to the 5th Chamber for example, is like starting to fight a cangaroo, and then Satan himself.

I think there should be something more to prepare you for the last level. You can't just always consult the wiki page, i see it like a cheat.
However this last one is just my opinion eh... ;)

[mellamoger]

Originally posted by D-ray:

1- What do you mean with: "You didn't played very well"?
The only things that rewards you for playing good are the boss rooms, with the Master Rounds. Weapons and drops are not affected (unless you don't have those particular items).

&

Originally posted by D-ray:

4- I know the ammo trick, but as i said, if you dont have good weapons is really hard anyway to not get hit.
About: "Try looking for those mechanisms". I want to ask you, how can you find a specific item in a roguelike? ',:0

Boss drops have some factors that affect them. The first one you will probably know it already:
- If you haven't found a gun on your current floor before entering the boss fight, the boss drop will always be 100% a gun.
- If you have already found a gun on your current floor before entering the boss fight, the boss drop will always be 50% gun / 50% item.

Think about it before entering a boss fight. Do you need a gun? Or do you need an item?
The second of the factors that affect the boss drop depends on the floor you are:
Floor
1 D10% C50% B35% A4% S1%
2/Oub D0% C38.8% B42.7% A10.7% S7.8%
3/Abbey D0% C20% B40% A30% S10%
4 D0% C10% B50% A30% S10%

So you are on the 1st floor. You gonna fight the boss, and you already know you mostly gonna get a C drop (you have the highest chances). Personally, I don't like most of the C item weapons: usually they are mob killers, but not boss killers, which is what I'm looking to improve the fastest I can. That C gun probably won't help me; but instead, C items can help a lot. If I have a spare key, I can open a chest before the boss fight; if I get a gun, I will have increased the chances of getting an item by 50%.

This is a silly example, but the game is plenty of this stuff. Learn your synergies: a trashy weapon can become a boss smasher with the right item. Know which items increase your coolness. Learn to upgrade your curse. Know which items make you able to steal (it amazes me that lot of above average players still don't know that some items give you a chance to steal). In the end, EtG it's a game of ADAPTATION. You have to play with what you've got, so learn to the the BEST PROFIT of it. And to do so, you will have to take risks. You want more chances of getting drops? Buy the Sunglasses each time you see them. Or Ballot. Or Sixth Chamber (they will give you 4'5 curse instantly if you buy it from Cursula, but as I said, it's a matter of taking risks). You want more ammo drops? Get cursed. You will have stronger mobs, but you will be able to use your weapons all you want. And for god's sake, always go to secret chambers. That's a minimum of 6 extra drops. I don't know how people don't love that.

Originally posted by D-ray:

3- I didn't said I want it to be easier, i know how it works. I just said that the amount of those enemies is unfair. Some room patterns barely leaves you a couple of seconds before getting cornered (Again, if you have good weapons, you will find it obliviuosly easier).
Using blanks? Sure! But its hard to not try to keep them for something like the boss or for harder rooms.

You'll learns those rooms and will learn your own tricks, as you have already learned the ones from the 1st floor. It's a matter of practice.

Originally posted by D-ray:

5- I said is ok, but how he can never spawn them, can sometimes only doing so. And trust me, it does it.

Not if you're ready to smash it :) :) the sooner you kill it, the higher the chances he doesn't spawn it.

Originally posted by D-ray:

- Yes, everybody knows that. You can find it written on the Ammonomicon, on the walls, even my grandma once told me this.

Seriuosly, how can you manage to know it without going on the Wiki?

You're right: I didn't know it before checking the wiki. That's why I checked it before complaining about it on a post :) :)

Originally posted by D-ray:

6- UNACCEPTABLE!!!

CONDITION!!!!

Really, I reafirm on what I said: EtG it's a game of ADAPTATION. You won't always get the guns and items you want, but you will get another ones. What if you gave them a try? They could surprise you. And that's the reason I still keep playing this game: with 500+ hours I still discover strange synergies I hadn't seen before.

As once I told to another user, I'm not a streamer guy, but if you want I can stream a run in order to see how, in fact, there are no bad RNG runs (well, yes do they exist, but honestly they are really few compared to all the posts complaining about how not getting good drops). Take a look at the percentages: stats don't lie. Neither do my hips.

[D-ray]

Originally posted by mellamoger:

Originally posted by D-ray:

1- What do you mean with: "You didn't played very well"?
The only things that rewards you for playing good are the boss rooms, with the Master Rounds. Weapons and drops are not affected (unless you don't have those particular items).

&

Originally posted by D-ray:

4- I know the ammo trick, but as i said, if you dont have good weapons is really hard anyway to not get hit.
About: "Try looking for those mechanisms". I want to ask you, how can you find a specific item in a roguelike? ',:0

Boss drops have some factors that affect them. The first one you will probably know it already:
- If you haven't found a gun on your current floor before entering the boss fight, the boss drop will always be 100% a gun.
- If you have already found a gun on your current floor before entering the boss fight, the boss drop will always be 50% gun / 50% item.

Think about it before entering a boss fight. Do you need a gun? Or do you need an item?
The second of the factors that affect the boss drop depends on the floor you are:
Floor
1 D10% C50% B35% A4% S1%
2/Oub D0% C38.8% B42.7% A10.7% S7.8%
3/Abbey D0% C20% B40% A30% S10%
4 D0% C10% B50% A30% S10%

So you are on the 1st floor. You gonna fight the boss, and you already know you mostly gonna get a C drop (you have the highest chances). Personally, I don't like most of the C item weapons: usually they are mob killers, but not boss killers, which is what I'm looking to improve the fastest I can. That C gun probably won't help me; but instead, C items can help a lot. If I have a spare key, I can open a chest before the boss fight; if I get a gun, I will have increased the chances of getting an item by 50%.

This is a silly example, but the game is plenty of this stuff. Learn your synergies: a trashy weapon can become a boss smasher with the right item. Know which items increase your coolness. Learn to upgrade your curse. Know which items make you able to steal (it amazes me that lot of above average players still don't know that some items give you a chance to steal). In the end, EtG it's a game of ADAPTATION. You have to play with what you've got, so learn to the the BEST PROFIT of it. And to do so, you will have to take risks. You want more chances of getting drops? Buy the Sunglasses each time you see them. Or Ballot. Or Sixth Chamber (they will give you 4'5 curse instantly if you buy it from Cursula, but as I said, it's a matter of taking risks). You want more ammo drops? Get cursed. You will have stronger mobs, but you will be able to use your weapons all you want. And for god's sake, always go to secret chambers. That's a minimum of 6 extra drops. I don't know how people don't love that.

Originally posted by D-ray:

3- I didn't said I want it to be easier, i know how it works. I just said that the amount of those enemies is unfair. Some room patterns barely leaves you a couple of seconds before getting cornered (Again, if you have good weapons, you will find it obliviuosly easier).
Using blanks? Sure! But its hard to not try to keep them for something like the boss or for harder rooms.

You'll learns those rooms and will learn your own tricks, as you have already learned the ones from the 1st floor. It's a matter of practice.

Originally posted by D-ray:

5- I said is ok, but how he can never spawn them, can sometimes only doing so. And trust me, it does it.

Not if you're ready to smash it :) :) the sooner you kill it, the higher the chances he doesn't spawn it.

Originally posted by D-ray:

- Yes, everybody knows that. You can find it written on the Ammonomicon, on the walls, even my grandma once told me this.

Seriuosly, how can you manage to know it without going on the Wiki?

You're right: I didn't know it before checking the wiki. That's why I checked it before complaining about it on a post :) :)

Originally posted by D-ray:

6- UNACCEPTABLE!!!

CONDITION!!!!

Really, I reafirm on what I said: EtG it's a game of ADAPTATION. You won't always get the guns and items you want, but you will get another ones. What if you gave them a try? They could surprise you. And that's the reason I still keep playing this game: with 500+ hours I still discover strange synergies I hadn't seen before.

As once I told to another user, I'm not a streamer guy, but if you want I can stream a run in order to see how, in fact, there are no bad RNG runs (well, yes do they exist, but honestly they are really few compared to all the posts complaining about how not getting good drops). Take a look at the percentages: stats don't lie.

Thanks alot for the suggestions!

But about the wiki one, I never consult the wiki, because i found it as a cheat, or a last choice. I like this game so much, and thats why i made this discussions.

[mellamoger]

Originally posted by D-ray:

Thanks alot for the suggestions!

But about the wiki one, I never consult the wiki, because i found it as a cheat, or a last choice. I like this game so much, and thats why i made this discussions.

Of course it's up to you, but it will help you a lot: there's a lot of info there that's barely impossible to discover by yourself, or only if you're lucky. There are tons of synergies that are game breaking. Did you know, for example, that Charm Horn, besides charming enemies, also charms the shoopkeeper and you can steal items?

Example: you're on the first floor and you see Charm Horn on the shop. You also see a key. You wanna go to Oubliette, but you don't have money to buy both. Buy Charm Horn; use it to charm the shopkeeper and then steal the key (plus, you will get 1 curse, which means more money). And also you will have a item that let's you steal for the rest of your run. PROFIT.

That's what I meant when I said "adapt" and "force". Take everything that surrounds you and make it spin in your favour!

You find the Winchester game room. And you wanna play it but... what if you wait? Maybe the rewards you find on your current floor could help you a lot to make it. Maybe you find Bouncing bullets (maybe you didn't want to open that C chest, but now you want). Maybe you find the Jetpack (also C chest). Or maybe you find Wax Wings so you beat it in easy mode. That's another example of forcing and adapting. Yeah, you could play it directly because you want the chest for the boss fight, but as I said... rewards come with risks.

[RocketPotatoL62]

Honestly, I expected more bullets out of a floor literally called bullet hell.

It's not impossible, but in my personal experiences it always depends on how well I performed in the first 5 chambers.

If I get into it with relatively low health thanks to my poor plays, chances are I'll get to the Lich with half a heart left (I don't need to specify how well that turns out).

If I went in with poor ammo conservation and end up having to resort to the sidearm, well that's just a combination of bad luck and my own mistakes.

The only enemy that scares me in there is the shotgrub, but avoiding those comes down to anticipation and timing still.

I don't think every run is meant to end with bullet hell, you can always just go to the past and have some fun if you played poorly/had bad luck. Once you beat bullet hell once, whether or not you want to go there is a choice.

It's an optional ridiculous gauntlet that is considered to be the game's final challenge. Why should it be fair and balanced?

[The Unmobable spés]

Well...i grew up with hard games, games like no continues, no Cheatcodes, no 20+ extra lives.

Genre is meant to be hard, so pls expect it.

I was playing super meat boy and it was like the hardest experience gaming wise i've had for a very long time...finally got at least 82% i think.

I started Isaac and thought the same, some characters and achievements used to be unbelievable hard, even impossible for me.
It was painful but in the end i got 'god head' last winter.

Two years ago i got gungeon and was instantly frustrated by the HUGE learning curve the game has. At this time i was in isaac mode and couldn't addept my Isaac skills to successfull play gungeon. I was really p!$$ed off and stopped playing it entirely for more than a year or more.
At this time every run ended in floor 3 or 4, i thought pillars and monger are impossible to beat under normal circumstances.

End of may i restarted after i saw a streamer on youtube doing gungeon pretty well.
In 60+ hours before i never beat the dragun, i couldn't get to the fifth floor constantly.
But this time it worked, i killed the dragun for the very first time, i finally build the bullet that can kill the past. I never thought i'd get these 4 parts to the Last floor because the game was so painfully hard for me.

Until first week of june i killed every past, unlocked the secret dudes, Beat blessed run, finished map guy and bought everything i could.

I need to do Last chamber, lead god, kill a jammed boss and finish hunting Quest.
Guess what ? ... I'll do it eventually because that's the way it worked every last time i thought i'd never ever do it.

It's all about practise.

Bottom line :

You'll also do it. This single exceptional overpowered ridiculous outstanding run will come. Keep going and good luck.
Send me a screen the day you did it.

[Ghaleon]

Chamber 6 is the hardest thing in the game, including its boss.. Its difficulty is fine imo since once you can beat it, you have little else to work towards.

[ZexxCrine]

so hold on. you wont consult the wiki because you think its a cheat to use information that someone else has compiled, but you think its perfectly fine to ask other people for information that they have compiled for help?

between that and the necroposting the other day I can conclude that you are a very strange individual.

[Mike]

It is a joke - too easy. Never have any problems on Hell.