We need to talk about the botched dodging mechanic in the game

[nomatter]

I really want to like this game but there are just so many amateur like design failures that I can't ignore it. Like, why does dodging have a 500ms delay? Imagine this in a game like dark souls; this would be a game breaking bug.

Also, as a developer it's hilarious to see that the devs obviously used one global constant for movement speed of... anything. When you dodge you move as fast as the fu cking bullets move, so if you dare to dodge in the wrong direction, it's a 100% hit. Also because of this, stop making the player vulnerable the exact second the dodge animation finished.

Furthermore why are there millions of destructable objects in the game an literally none of them contain any items? Why is there no permanent upgrade for your start weapon so starting over again isn't so hilariously boring and annoying every time?

And finally, which of you genious devs had the idea to make the elevator guy require a literally unachievable amount of money and keys in the second fu cking level? With your joy killing rng a player is lucky enough if he got any key at all at that time lmao

[Nermanater]

mmmmmmm

[YESDuck]

Did you actually expect the dodge roll to have no penalty?? Of course they'll add something to stop the players from spamming it, it's something that literally every game dev does.

[DiceDsx]

Originally posted by YESDuck:

Did you actually expect the dodge roll to have no penalty?? Of course they'll add something to stop the players from spamming it, it's something that literally every game dev does.

This.

Also, destructible items have nothing in it because players would feel forced to break everything in a room, which is boring.

[nomatter]

Originally posted by YESDuck:

Did you actually expect the dodge roll to have no penalty?? Of course they'll add something to stop the players from spamming it, it's something that literally every game dev does.

well basically you are right, but currently the dodge is almost useless. there is literally one situation where dodging makes sense (dodging in direction to the enemy while they shoot and fu cking prey that they don't shoot again in that time). the game itself just doesn't feel smooth because the devs used one global constant for the speed of everything moving ingame. I know there are items that make you move/shoot faster, but until they fixed the broken rng, there is no hope to get those items reasonably often

[RocketPotatoL62]

Originally posted by nomatter:

I really want to like this game but there are just so many amateur like design failures that I can't ignore it. Like, why does dodging have a 500ms delay? Imagine this in a game like dark souls; this would be a game breaking bug.

Also, as a developer it's hilarious to see that the devs obviously used one global constant for movement speed of... anything. When you dodge you move as fast as the fu cking bullets move, so if you dare to dodge in the wrong direction, it's a 100% hit. Also because of this, stop making the player vulnerable the exact second the dodge animation finished.

Furthermore why are there millions of destructable objects in the game an literally none of them contain any items? Why is there no permanent upgrade for your start weapon so starting over again isn't so hilariously boring and annoying every time?

And finally, which of you genious devs had the idea to make the elevator guy require a literally unachievable amount of money and keys in the second fu cking level? With your joy killing rng a player is lucky enough if he got any key at all at that time lmao

Gonna take the bait

The dodge roll is very fine tuned and through mastery can render you able to beat the whole game being hit only 6 times or less. There is not a single situation where being hit is inevitable, except in challenge mode. The punishment for dodge rolling makes it so you have to time it well and use it sparingly instead of just rolling around like a maniac.

The dodge roll mechanic is fine. I don't like to use the "git gud" card, but that's what this warrants.

The second paragraph is simply false, nothing to say here.

The destructible objects are there to give the extra flare you'd come to expect with a game that aims to pride itself on goofy gunplay. If they did contain items, your average run would last much more than just an hour.

Permanent upgrades on characters is backwards and goes against the point of a rogue-lite, you're supposed to be able to rely on naught but your base skills and passives, the rest are tools. If you want a more interesting start, try blessed mode runs.

The goals for getting the elevators are fair, albeit a bit RNG reliant. It might not happen every run, but it's not unrealistic like having to find missing poster to unlock the lost in Isaac.

This thread is ridden with salt, you'll have more fun if you learn to see what actually gives you trouble instead of calling the game's mechanics botched up, or blaming RNG.

[nomatter]

Originally posted by DiceDsx:

Originally posted by YESDuck:

Did you actually expect the dodge roll to have no penalty?? Of course they'll add something to stop the players from spamming it, it's something that literally every game dev does.

This.

Also, destructible items have nothing in it because players would feel forced to break everything in a room, which is boring.

this is nonsense and a lazy excuse. just put single bullets (payment) or single ammunition in there for example so it's at least something when you are almost dead.

[YESDuck]

The dodge rolls gives you frames of invincibility. If you fail one it doesn't mean the mechanic is bad, it's just you who is bad.

[JimmySparklingHeels]

Originally posted by nomatter:

Originally posted by YESDuck:

Did you actually expect the dodge roll to have no penalty?? Of course they'll add something to stop the players from spamming it, it's something that literally every game dev does.

well basically you are right, but currently the dodge is almost useless. there is literally one situation where dodging makes sense (dodging in direction to the enemy while they shoot and fu cking prey that they don't shoot again in that time). the game itself just doesn't feel smooth because the devs used one global constant for the speed of everything moving ingame. I know there are items that make you move/shoot faster, but until they fixed the broken rng, there is no hope to get those items reasonably often

dude you have obviously not played the game enough if you think that dodge roll is useless. late game bosses can only be completed using dodgerolls, some attacks are unavoidable otherwise. the game doesn't have one constant speed for everything, actually a lot of attacks from different bosses and enemies can differ in speed, i have no idea how you didn't notice that. in case you want to get the money and keys for the second elevator, you just need to pick pilot, not waste your keys and go to the secret floor to get extra money and keys out of it.

[nomatter]

Originally posted by Sonic_RocketPotatoL62:

Originally posted by nomatter:

I really want to like this game but there are just so many amateur like design failures that I can't ignore it. Like, why does dodging have a 500ms delay? Imagine this in a game like dark souls; this would be a game breaking bug.

Also, as a developer it's hilarious to see that the devs obviously used one global constant for movement speed of... anything. When you dodge you move as fast as the fu cking bullets move, so if you dare to dodge in the wrong direction, it's a 100% hit. Also because of this, stop making the player vulnerable the exact second the dodge animation finished.

Furthermore why are there millions of destructable objects in the game an literally none of them contain any items? Why is there no permanent upgrade for your start weapon so starting over again isn't so hilariously boring and annoying every time?

And finally, which of you genious devs had the idea to make the elevator guy require a literally unachievable amount of money and keys in the second fu cking level? With your joy killing rng a player is lucky enough if he got any key at all at that time lmao

Gonna take the bait

The dodge roll is very fine tuned and through mastery can render you being able to beat the whole game being hit only 6 times or less, there is not a single situation where being hit is inevitable, except in challenge mode. The punishment for dodge rolling makes it so you have to time it well and use it sparingly instead of just rolling around like a maniac.

The dodge roll mechanic is fine. I don't like to use the "git gud" card, but that's what this warrants.

The second paragraph is simply false, nothing to say here.

The destructible objects are there to give the extra flare you'd come to expect with a game that aims to pride itself on goofy gunplay. If they did contain items, your average run would last much more than just an hour.

Permanent upgrades on characters is backwards and goes against the point of a rogue-lite, you're supposed to be able to rely on naught but your base skills and passives, the rest are tools. If you want a more interesting start, try blessed mode runs.

The goals for getting the elevators are fair, albeit a bit RNG reliant. It might not happen every run, but it's not unrealistic like having to find missing poster to unlock the lost in Isaac.

This thread is ridden with salt, you'll have more fun if you learn to see what actually gives you trouble instead of calling the game's mechanics botched up, or blaming RNG.

your answer is so full of excuses and ignorance that you sound like a rick and morty fanboy. I can answer literally every of your butthurt objections with one sentence: there is a difference between rng that makes the game more exciting and rng that make the game 30% fun and 70% boring.

Also, you have no idea how dodgind and the timings/speed actually work. Just because there is some lonely speed runner who managed to use it perfectly, it doesn't mean it's well designed. Excusing every flaw in a game because you have no other thing in life to root for is not healty.

[nomatter]

Originally posted by YESDuck:

The dodge rolls gives you frames of invincibility. If you fail one it doesn't mean the mechanic is bad, it's just you who is bad.

the only thing bad here is your argument. go back to school.

[JimmySparklingHeels]

Originally posted by nomatter:

Originally posted by DiceDsx:

This.

Also, destructible items have nothing in it because players would feel forced to break everything in a room, which is boring.

this is nonsense and a lazy excuse. just put single bullets (payment) or single ammunition in there for example so it's at least something when you are almost dead.

payment for breaking destructible items that are literally all over the floor would be game breaking, the props are there just for the decorations

[nomatter]

Originally posted by SWEEPIN' TIME:

Originally posted by nomatter:

well basically you are right, but currently the dodge is almost useless. there is literally one situation where dodging makes sense (dodging in direction to the enemy while they shoot and fu cking prey that they don't shoot again in that time). the game itself just doesn't feel smooth because the devs used one global constant for the speed of everything moving ingame. I know there are items that make you move/shoot faster, but until they fixed the broken rng, there is no hope to get those items reasonably often

dude you have obviously not played the game enough if you think that dodge roll is useless. late game bosses can only be completed using dodgerolls, some attacks are unavoidable otherwise. the game doesn't have one constant speed for everything, actually a lot of attacks from different bosses and enemies can differ in speed, i have no idea how you didn't notice that. in case you want to get the money and keys for the second elevator, you just need to pick pilot, not waste your keys and go to the secret floor to get extra money and keys out of it.

yeah I tried using the pilot for that but his weapon is ♥♥♥♥, the lockpick is like 25% percent success chance and it's just... not fun at all, which is my main point of this post.

[nomatter]

Originally posted by SWEEPIN' TIME:

Originally posted by nomatter:

this is nonsense and a lazy excuse. just put single bullets (payment) or single ammunition in there for example so it's at least something when you are almost dead.

payment for breaking destructible items that are literally all over the floor would be game breaking, the props are there just for the decorations

this has to be a joke or you are trolling. this is a GAME, so when you have millions of breakable shi t then at least make it somewhat rewarding.

[officepunk]

Originally posted by nomatter:

Originally posted by SWEEPIN' TIME:

dude you have obviously not played the game enough if you think that dodge roll is useless. late game bosses can only be completed using dodgerolls, some attacks are unavoidable otherwise. the game doesn't have one constant speed for everything, actually a lot of attacks from different bosses and enemies can differ in speed, i have no idea how you didn't notice that. in case you want to get the money and keys for the second elevator, you just need to pick pilot, not waste your keys and go to the secret floor to get extra money and keys out of it.

yeah I tried using the pilot for that but his weapon is ♥♥♥♥, the lockpick is like 25% percent success chance and it's just... not fun at all, which is my main point of this post.

the pilot is "high risk high reward character". you think it would be fun lockpicking chests with 100%? the chance is 50% tho. its not about fun, its about how fair is this game, whci is also a point of this discusson

[nomatter]

Originally posted by Taterazay:

Originally posted by nomatter:

yeah I tried using the pilot for that but his weapon is ♥♥♥♥, the lockpick is like 25% percent success chance and it's just... not fun at all, which is my main point of this post.

the pilot is "high risk high reward character". you think it would be fun lockpicking chests with 100%? the chance is 50% tho. its not about fun, its about how fair is this game, whci is also a point of this discusson

lmao the shi tty weapon plus lockpick item that is literally just useful if you have to pay the elevator re tard are not "fun" my friend.