Daisuke's challenge (and boss rush and blessed)

[Icedfate]

This is my final venting before i possibly move on to the next game but yeah, daisuke's challenge right? (clever name, i believe it is pronounced DiceKay, a 20 sided dice named Dicekay)

it's not the insane challenge that I'm complaining about. although I see why only 0.7% of players have done it.
It's the fricking 6 credit entrance fee. If it was like the Ultra Hard challenge on Isaac, that I could just keep quick restarting, but no. every time I fail, I have to return to the breach and pay up again.
and then when I run out of credits, I have to go back to doing regular runs to grind it back up to attempt again.
same complaint with blessed runs and boss rush, although those challenges were much more reasonable.
at least the blessed run is not overly difficult. it's just adapting to whatever gun it switches you to.

boss rush forces you to fight the door lord mid way which can kill the whole run but at least boss rush only costs 3 credits...

I think it's great that they give you something to spend credits on after you unlocked everything and bought out the shops and all, but I would have liked something to spend it on other than making me play regular mode to earn credits to pay an entrance fee to super hard mode.

I know Isaac has the Eden tokens but those are easy to accumulate and if you are any good, it's almost impossible to run out of them.

this just seems like a lazy way to artificially inflate the amount of time you play the game.
Isaac is guilty of it too, in spades. but I was led to believe that this game didn't resort to such design.


hate me if you want. go ahead and troll respond this post. I'm done. I posted this mainly on the astronomically low chance that the developer might see my feedback and actually give a crap.

This is the only flaw in the game that I feel is unacceptable.

[ZexxCrine]

Eh it is what it is. I haven't unlocked it myself out of lack of interest, but bosses don't drop hedgemony credits if you do boss rush do they? I think I remember reading that but I could be confusing it with enchanted runs which definately don't drop any. If they do though you could do that to get some fairly quickly, and if they don't then I got nothing. It is a shame if not. Just hoping the upcoming content update will be really good.

[Helly]

Agreed. Although it's past the point where much can be done about it now without any lashback from those who already out time into it. I can see why it exists, but the prices for Blessed, Challenge, and Boss Rush runs are too high.

Boss rush is just about acceptable due to the lack of content behind it, and the fact that by the time you unlock it youll be pretty dang good at the game, but that doesn't mean there should be a lack of content. 2 credits per Boss Rush run would be better. A small change, but it adds up.

Blessed and Challenge modes are flat-out too expensive. They should be 3 to start with, then drop to 2 after 5 runs, then 1 after 15, rather than 30. As it stands, you have to pay a whopping 540 credits to make Daisuke get cheaper, and blessed runs never do afaik.

[Icedfate]

welp, no hard feelings to anyone. there were mistakes made. I admit that I don't always look at who is being quoted in some threads.

the game is great, I'll still probably play it for fun. but this challenge...

I actually read that the item from daiske's challenge does get unlocked if you fail it 30 times. but you have to actually "beat" it to get the achievment.

I don't really feel that bad since less than 1% of the community has actually done it.

it's still not as insane as playing Aria in Crypt of The Necrodancer. that's just impossible. impossible and yet people have done it, how, I have no idea.
it's like that kid who played the Dragonforce song flawlessly on guitar hero.
or that woman who played that dancing game for 6 days straight, it doesn't make sense, how did she go to the bathroom? how did she stay hydrated? how did she not sleep for 6 days straight?

[Liy4b-Derg]

You don't necessarily have to go back to the breach to get a blessing. Just restart and you will be prompted to keep the modifiers on.

[Icedfate]

you know what BS? Killing the Lich doesn't earn you credits. He's (arguably) the toughest boss in the game. He ought to be worth credits.
there's absolutely no incentive to beat the Lich a second time after you already beat him once.
killing a character's past should be worth credits too.

true, I can earn 12 credits for completing a run to the 5th chamber and killing the dragun which is enough for 2 challenge attempts. but the Lich should give credits too.

so yeah, this thread is more about the credit griniding mechanic than anything else.

[mellamoger]

Not sure what to think about this... at first I thought the same as you, but now I have +1500 credits to spare. Don't know if devs have really thought about it but the way I see it is that they are challenges to be made once you really control the game, therefore you're supposed to have credits to spare. However, it's true that if you want to give it a try when you're still unlocking items it's a really pain in the ass. I remember that my first attemps, when I had no credits, what I did was speedruns with The Bullet until floor 3 and then suicide, in order to get the credits to play the Challenge.

Oh, and I agree with the Lich one: it should give credits or at least some kind of reward (I don't understand how there isn't a reward for flawlessing him).

Pd: you know that Challenge mode was already nerfed... do you? (and I can proudly brag that I beat it before the nerf)

Pd2: I also disagree with the Aria discussion xDD. As I see it, beating Necrodancer with Aria is a lot way easier than beating challenge mode. I can consistently beat the game with Aria, and to be honest, I find her character waaay more easier than Bolt.

Pd3: Of course, I can say all of this because I have +200 hours in each game. The price for this is having no friends *cries in the corner while starting a new Necrodancer game*

[SonicBoomNFA]

Apparently, if you die enough times, challenge mode will only cost 1 credit, kind of like how Mario games give OP power ups to people when they suck enough to die a million times. Hopefully you'll beat it before that happens though.
Maybe check to Gungeon will to check if I'm right because I only remember that from someone else saying it happened to them in a thread a long while ago.

[Icedfate]

I thought the 1 credit thing was just someone else saying that's how they thought the devs "ought" to have done it.


as for the challenge mode having been nerfed?! wtf, what was it like before?!
the futhest I made it was to floor 4 and it's ridiculous. every room has 3 modifiers.

like poison pursuit + hammer time + unfriendly fire
then the next room has
blob rancher (millions of blobbies pop out)+ ghosts in the shells + high stress

although, fighting gatling gull with gull's revenge was funny...

gun queue pisses me off to no end.

fighting treadnought with
ignition shots + rat's revenge + gull's revenge


I'm just wondering what was challenge mode like before they "nerfed" it?



also congrats on your low% as Aria achievment and your Gungeon challenge mode. I'm not diminishing what you have done.

but

how the hell is it easier to play crypt of the necrodancer for an hour and a half without getting hit, without missing a single beat, with only the knife than it is to beat the challenge mode on Gungeon?!
I tried and tried and tried and tried and never lasted more than 20 seconds as that character.

I did it as bolt, easily. because you know, just because you have to move twice per beat, doesn't mean you are not allowed to miss a beat, you can stop moving and wait for the enemies to come to you. plus, she has a spear with extra range.

how can you say it's easier to play without missing a beat with just the knife than it is to play double time with the spear?

I'm actually mind blown when I see someone beat it with Coda...

[SonicBoomNFA]

"how the hell is it easier to play crypt of the necrodancer for an hour and a half without getting hit, without missing a single beat, with only the knife than it is to beat the challenge mode on Gungeon?!"
I didn't read the thread, but whoever said All Zone mode with Aria is easier than Etg Challenge mode is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lying SO hard. Challenge mode ain't even that bad (unless they were implying that Aria All Zones mode is just really easy, in which case congrats to that guy for being amazing at Crypt of the Necrodancer).

Also, I checked the wiki. Challenge mode reduces the cost to 1 credit after 30 fails.

[Helly]

Originally posted by SonicBoomNFA:

"how the hell is it easier to play crypt of the necrodancer for an hour and a half without getting hit, without missing a single beat, with only the knife than it is to beat the challenge mode on Gungeon?!"
I didn't read the thread, but whoever said All Zone mode with Aria is easier than Etg Challenge mode is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lying SO hard. Challenge mode ain't even that bad (unless they were implying that Aria All Zones mode is just really easy, in which case congrats to that guy for being amazing at Crypt of the Necrodancer).

Also, I checked the wiki. Challenge mode reduces the cost to 1 credit after 30 fails.

Dangit, you posted exactly what I was going to whilst I was typing.

[mellamoger]

Originally posted by Femaiden:

as for the challenge mode having been nerfed?! wtf, what was it like before?!
the futhest I made it was to floor 4 and it's ridiculous. every room has 3 modifiers.[...]
I'm just wondering what was challenge mode like before they "nerfed" it?

So they just removed some "tier synergies" that made bosses a full nightmare. Don't remember exactly, but imagine something like Hammertime + Adrenaline Rush + Zone Control while fighting High Priest. THAT happened xDD (and in my opinion, though unfair, it was really funny to do).

Originally posted by Femaiden:

also congrats on your low% as Aria achievment and your Gungeon challenge mode. I'm not diminishing what you have done.

Thx mate :) but in the end, I think it's just a matter of practice. As I said, I have +200 hours on each game (in EtG almost 300). It would worry me if I didn't became a really skilled player with all that bunch of hours xDD

Originally posted by Femaiden:

how the hell is it easier to play crypt of the necrodancer for an hour and a half without getting hit, without missing a single beat, with only the knife than it is to beat the challenge mode on Gungeon?!
I tried and tried and tried and tried and never lasted more than 20 seconds as that character.

I did it as bolt, easily. because you know, just because you have to move twice per beat, doesn't mean you are not allowed to miss a beat, you can stop moving and wait for the enemies to come to you. plus, she has a spear with extra range.

how can you say it's easier to play without missing a beat with just the knife than it is to play double time with the spear?

I'm actually mind blown when I see someone beat it with Coda...

Aria is about controlling your nerves and knowing all your enemies. Once you're skilled, not missing a beat is the easiest part of Aria; the most difficult is dealing with tons of enemies and prioritizing inmediately which one should you focus on smashing first. Also, once you get some +damage items it gets easier; and of course, the top item with Aria is Ring of Peace, that makes the run a cake.

And yeah, I find Bolt more difficult because there are some enemies that kill you almost inmediatly if you aren't quick enough. Fighting a Blue Dragon, at double the time, in 4th zone which has already a high bpm, it's a nightmare! Or the f**king blademasters, I have blademasters with Bolt! I think that Aria is more "manageable", while with Bolt I rely more on having luck of not spawning some kind of enemies.

I still haven't made the "All characters run" because of Bolt xDD. And I agree with you, watching some REALLY skilled players make it with Coda it's just amazing.

[Helly]

Originally posted by mellamoger:

So they just removed some "tier synergies" that made bosses a full nightmare. Don't remember exactly, but imagine something like Hammertime + Adrenaline Rush + Zone Control while fighting High Priest. THAT happened xDD (and in my opinion, though unfair, it was really funny to do).

Zone control is removed from bosses, but Hammer Time and Adrenaline Rush certainly aren't.

Hammer Time + Adrenaline Rush + Gull's Revenge was not a fun way to end floor three, even against Cannonbalrog.

[Icedfate]

zone control only requires you to stay there for a few seconds , then it disappears. I dunno if that's how it worked "pre-nerf"

so like, if you got a boss with zone control, it would have disappeared after a few seconds and then you would have only had to deal with 2 effects for the rest of the battle.
so it almost sounds like removing zone control from bosses made it harder

[Helly]

Originally posted by Femaiden:

zone control only requires you to stay there for a few seconds , then it disappears. I dunno if that's how it worked "pre-nerf"

so like, if you got a boss with zone control, it would have disappeared after a few seconds and then you would have only had to deal with 2 effects for the rest of the battle.
so it almost sounds like removing zone control from bosses made it harder

There would only be two or three crates per room, and they have different timer rates depending on the floor. For something like High Priest, which requires you to follow it around the room, you can see how it can easily be too much to stay in one place and defeat the boss in a reasonable amount of time.

Also, imagine zone control on Wallmongerer. RIP run.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by Hellpest:

Originally posted by Femaiden:

zone control only requires you to stay there for a few seconds , then it disappears. I dunno if that's how it worked "pre-nerf"

so like, if you got a boss with zone control, it would have disappeared after a few seconds and then you would have only had to deal with 2 effects for the rest of the battle.
so it almost sounds like removing zone control from bosses made it harder

There would only be two or three crates per room, and they have different timer rates depending on the floor. For something like High Priest, which requires you to follow it around the room, you can see how it can easily be too much to stay in one place and defeat the boss in a reasonable amount of time.

Also, imagine zone control on Wallmongerer. RIP run.

yeah, but with the zone control, you would only have to stay in the zone for a few seconds and then it's gone forever, never have to worry about it for the rest of the fight.

you know what's RIP is hammer time + rat's revenge + poison pursuit. evenhammer time + rat revenge without anything else is RIP. I lost to beholster and I always flawless that guy.

I would rather have zone control + hammer time than rat's revenge + hammer time.

although, I agree, zone control on wallmonger would be broken because as soon as he moves forward, you could get locked out of your zone and it becomes impossible to complete.




funny story.

I just did it! just now. though pure luck. I swear. I mean it takes skill, but this was pure luck. I beat cannonbalrog with unfriendly fire + gulls revenge..and he dropped Gunther!

then on the 4th floor, I was still trying to level up gunther and got hit too much and was down to a half heart and I used a blank to keep from getting killed and it revealed the secret room.
pure dumb luck, I never would have guessed the secret room was there.

in the secret room was a blue chest and I almost didn't open it then I said what the heck and out popped the medkit!
more pure luck, the game gaives me eaxctly what I needed, exactly when I needed it?!

back at full health, I managed to clear the floor and level up gunther and had to (got to?) fight the kill pillars.

with only 2 mods, high stress + bad chess board(?)

with fully leveled up gunther and previous practice from that attack where they put bullets around the edges and I had the jug of moonshine, I made short work of them. it would have been flawless but I stood on a green square too long.

and they dropped...tha black hole gun!

now all I had to do was make it to the dragun.

floor 5, I actually went the right way and found dragun and I was lucky enough not to get gun queue. gun queue would have killed me.

without gun queue, I was able to cycle back and forth between black hole gun and gunther for an easy kill.


I still think this was way easier than Aria low% All Zones Mode.. .

I do recognize that some things are easier for others and for other people. what person A thinks is too hard, person B might think is too easy and vice versa.

I supposed the reason that everyone who has done crypt as Aria thinks it is "easy" is because only a certain type of person can even do it. . .

I guess I just don't have that focus that like, a rock star that can stand on stage and play drums or guitar while doing vocals while under the influence of drugs and alcohol and still rock the house down has.






back to the whole crux of my original complaint is that now there's still an issue with the hegemony credits.

the only thing left that I can spend the credits on is the challenges. so, if I keep playing, I'm just gonna end up accumulating hundreds of credits, unless I restrict myself to only doing challenges and why would I want to put myself through that again?

it's too bad there isn't some sort of consumable item you can spend it on , like maybe some guy , you spend 3 credits on to get a random stat boost for the next run, or spend 2 credits to start with an extra key or something.

there really isn't a lot of incentive to keep playing the game now.