Black markets are too rare?

[Flytrap]

I haven't seen one in all my 60 hours.... Why are they so rare?

[WhiteCrow]

Geeze, I must be lucky. 60 hours in, and I found one blackmarket and one glitch chest. Too bad both of those were utterly terrible runs with terrible guns I had.

[ned]

Martin eredeti hozzászólása:

brickey.8 eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm 27 hours in (in which time I've done 26 runs according to the skull counter) and I haven't seen it once. This is not an unlockable, so it's been available for that entire 27 hours. And we're talking about something that only affects the current run, not a rare loot drop in an MMO.

You need to re-calibrate your definition of "not that rare".

It's uncommon yes, but it's definitely not the rarest thing in the world.

lolk

[★Bun★]

Magyarharcos eredeti hozzászólása:

I haven't seen one in all my 60 hours.... Why are they so rare?

Maybe because it's all if not most of the vendors in one place, I've seen it four times and I have around 300 or so hours clocked in on the game

[DiceDsx]

Magyarharcos eredeti hozzászólása:

DiceDsx eredeti hozzászólása:

Some examples?

Believe me, i would provide an example, if i could, but writing down lines and lines of explanation of just one room is just not fun, especcially because i would want to mention atleast 7 different layouts, that wouldn't fit in here.

I didn't find this kind of rooms over 100 hours of play.
Also, enemies don't shoot you immediately when you enter a room unless you shoot first, I think.

[Unsanitary]

It's pretty decently rare. I've seen 3 in my 70ish hours. Managed to enter two of those times. 1 glitch chest and 0 rainbow chests
I'd like to see the black market have a higher chance of appearing with more curse or something. That or maybe just being directly tied to the shrine at the start and greatly increasing the chance of one appearing

[CJones]

I've seen four in about 65 hours. Stragely, all of them were within the last month. I had one game where it spawned on the second floor.

In that same time I've seen the Wall Monger once, a glitch chest one, and have never seen the witches. Never even heard of a rainbow chest.

[MrRobotototo]

I find them regularly. Or maybe I just play this game so much I keep track of time. And besides, you don't ABSOLUTELY need to find one. It gives you an achievment, I suppose.

[glitch]

80~ and I've seen about 7... Not that rare

[The Archfey Mirth]

Challenge and fun are not mutually exclusive. Challenges can be fun. I have fun even on my ♥♥♥♥♥♥ runs.

[brickey.8]

If the black market is so strong that they can't afford to give it once every 10 runs or so when you're doing everything right to maximize your chances (though in this chance there's nothing to do save always carry a bit of curse), that means they didn't balance it right. The solution is to make it less of gamebreaker, not just to make it rare.

The same would be true of the glitched chest except that if you're strong enough to win against a double boss you probably didn't need much help anyways. And the rainbow chest doesn't even have that excuse, since at best it's functionally equivalent to dropping a key plus a black chest.

It's one thing if S items are rare, since they have to compete in a pool of other S items. But these features aren't in a pool.

The only other roguelike I can think of with a "black market" equivalent that's even close to that rare is Isaac, and there it A: Is more common if you have certain items or do certain things and B: Is rare because it shares a pool of other useful "bonus" rooms, and C: Isn't any more powerful than the devil deal you can get up to once every 2 floors, just more weird. The next two roguelikes that sprung to my mind both had black markets that were 100% guaranteed if you met the (non-trivial) conditions, but they don't offer a discount, just extra shops.

edit: I take it back. Apparently rainbow chests give you 8 high-quality items, which I only know from spoilers because I haven't seen one in 30 hours. That is beyond silly. Even sillier than the black market. I promise, a chest randomly appearing that contains 3 items of that tier would still make your run feel special but wouldn't need a one in 3000 chance to "balance" it.

[The Archfey Mirth]

So, uh, Brick-poo. You want to see everything the game has to offer right off the bat, huh? Want no sudden sense of surprise and joy when you see something new, eh?

Then don't play rogue-likes.

The point of them is that nothing is ever the same. Another selling point of this game is the difficulty itself. If every 5th run gave you S-rank everything then there's no point in even playing. If it wasn't super rare then it wouldn't be "special" to get them.

[Unsanitary]

Those items are B tier at the lowest. Which is still pretty good
The only thing that's in there that isn't great would be frost bullets

[Unsanitary]

Scorpius eredeti hozzászólása:

VoidGuard eredeti hozzászólása:

Those items are B tier at the lowest. Which is still pretty good
The only thing that's in there that isn't great would be frost bullets

B and up they are indeed. But there are sooooo many items (apparently intentionally) items im wrong quality gathegories that B/A/S doesent mean anything. Oh the joy when I get broccoli in black chest...

Due to some balancing broccoli actually got a damage buff, a move speed buff, and is A tier now
I'd argue most B quality items are pretty good

[Garlboh]

Magyarharcos eredeti hozzászólása:

DiceDsx eredeti hozzászólása:

Sadly, in the DLCs, you need to be op. otherwise you're in for a boring, tedious slog.

Yea, thats sad..... Hush is a joke, a typical go big or go home type of boss. Hate it

To be fair, 98% of Isaac runs make you OP as ♥♥♥♥, Hush is beatable almost every playthrough, for an optional suberboss... it's pathetic.

[brickey.8]

Mistress Cupcake eredeti hozzászólása:

So, uh, Brick-poo. You want to see everything the game has to offer right off the bat, huh? Want no sudden sense of surprise and joy when you see something new, eh?

Then don't play rogue-likes.

The point of them is that nothing is ever the same. Another selling point of this game is the difficulty itself. If every 5th run gave you S-rank everything then there's no point in even playing. If it wasn't super rare then it wouldn't be "special" to get them.

The game already has hundreds of guns and hundreds of non-gun items, and I'm betting about half of them have to be unlocked. That's plenty of source of variety and new discovery.

And while every run shouldn't be the same, that doesn't mean that features (besides individual items) that only show up once every 50 runs are increasing the variety of your average run. They're actually doing the opposite--by your logic that means 95% of runs are "boring" since they don't feature anything rarer than a black or red chest or a few NPCs.

That's completely silly of course. Things like the Gunsling King and Chester already do plenty to spice up your runs, even though you'll reliably run into a few of them in a full-game run and can usually expect to run into any given NPC at least once within 5 hours or so of play. A thing doesn't have to spawn only once or twice in your entire playtime of the game for it to be interesting or memorable.

Plus the mere fact that these ultra-rare occurrences coincide with unbalancing the game for the current run suggest that they aren't rare to increase variety, they're rare because the developers thought they were too powerful. Which is just not a good way to balance your game unless it's an MMO or a grindfest.