SPOILERS: Why did Shay "go rogue"?

[Uber Goober]

SPOILER WARNING: Do not read any further if you haven't played through the first ~50% of the game, witnessing Shay's "change of heart" shall we say...


I don't know why but I'm not remembering why/what causes Shay to flip out on Achilles. He gets the "artifact" that fades into dust, then Lisbon goes boom.

He gets back to Achilles and goes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, saying he KNEW that would happen, and it was just like in Haiti. I don't remember Haiti happening in the game (maybe I was drunk or stoned at the time, meh whatever).

Why does Shay think that Achilles knows that getting the artifact would kill so many innocent people? Why does he accuse Achilles of that?

[Ariko]

I got the impression he didn't so much think Achilles knew that, rather that Achilles did not seem bothered by the destruction and was willing to risk more. As for Haiti, I was puzzled by that one too..though I imagine that Haiti got hit hard by a natural disaster around that time period too, and that is what is being refferenced? (with the assumption that it was caused by another investigation by another assassin)

[Code Classified]

Very beginning of the game when Adewale comes to talk to achilles if u listen in they talk about haiti (dunno how to use spoiler tags sooooooooo imma fade away after saying that), and actually shay was all in the wrong since the very beginning but i don't feel like writing a wall of text again.

All i have to say think bout how an assassin should be, and what shay did in lissabon, and u will see a one dumb sob :p

[Ariko]

Thanks for the clarification on Haiti, and I do agree with you on Shay's intelligence level XD

[Code Classified]

Автор сообщения: Ariko

Thanks for the clarification on Haiti, and I do agree with you on Shay's intelligence level XD

basically remember AC1? for what Altair was punished? for rushing like a moron n breaking the creed, the 2nd shay didn't do, but he went totally unprepared, even tho achilles said that those artifacts hold immense power so he has to be carefull :p shay goes in "hey shiny imma pick up, no defence mechanism for suuuuuuure" XD

[AlexMBrennan]

Achilles told Shay to go find that Piece of Eden, and he did.
What Shay is angry about is that the last time Achilles sent someone to retrieve a piece from that list (Haiti) it also resulted in cataclysmic destruction, but Achilles just kept sending more assassins to retrieve items from that list without bothering to mention assassins messing with these items likely caused the destruction of Haiti.
If Shay had been told what happened at Haiti he could have acted more appropriately, but as it stands he had no reason to suspect that following his grandmaster's orders would result in cataclysmic destruction.

It's not until the end of the game that Achilles realizes that blindly tampering with technology you don't understand (in order to get the upper hand in the templar-assassin arms race) might be a bad idea.

[Code Classified]

Автор сообщения: AlexMBrennan

Achilles told Shay to go find that Piece of Eden, and he did.
What Shay is angry about is that the last time Achilles sent someone to retrieve a piece from that list (Haiti) it also resulted in cataclysmic destruction, but Achilles just kept sending more assassins to retrieve items from that list without bothering to mention assassins messing with these items likely caused the destruction of Haiti.

It's not until the end of the game that Achilles realizes that blindly tampering with technology you don't understand (in order to get the upper hand in the templar-assassin arms race) might be a bad idea.

ofc achilles was a bit to blame too, but it's shay's lack of brain that is culprit in this betrayal :p

[AlexMBrennan]

Shay had two options
1) following Achilles orders to retrieve the artefact
2) betraying the assassins by not following the grandmaster's orders
Either way, he's screwed.

[Code Classified]

Автор сообщения: AlexMBrennan

Shay had two options
1) following Achilles orders to retrieve the artefact
2) betraying the assassins by not following the grandmaster's orders
Either way, he's screwed.

number 1 is still way btr choice, yes it was a hard gamble, but ultimately assassins do what is good, and want freedom for people, templars just want loyal slaves n "order", but i stay with what i said first, assassin masters always gave an assigment but proper preperation was always assassins work, so gathering info, checking for traps etc. shay didn't do it at all, in which he lost my respect from the very beginning (as much respect human can give to a non existing character that is :p)

But yeah i am a long fan of AC franchise so i tend to mix up all what assassins did n said thru all the games n kind of see it as a full timeless creed, since it's gathered from many different time perks.

[AlexMBrennan]

So what should Shay have done? Come back empty handed because his research had turned out that taking the artefact would result in an earthquake that would destroy Lisbon? How well do you think that would have gone over given that Achilles completely ignored Shay when he had hard evidence that touching the objects will result in disaster?

number 1 is still way btr choice, yes it was a hard gamble, but ultimately assassins do what is good, and want freedom for people, templars just want loyal slaves n "order"

That factor doesn't come into it really - Achillies will blindly go chasing after these arefacts, likely cause more disasters unless he is stopped.

And since Shay is the only one who knows this, he is the only one who could prevent it (first by trying to steal the book, later by joining the templars).
That doesn't mean that the Assassins are wrong as such, just that they had one incompetent leader who left Shay with no other choice than defection (unless you think the Assassin's cause justifies letting Achilles blow up London, Paris, Moscow and so on).
The tragedy is that all of that could have been avoided, but alas, was not.

And to be honest, I find Berg's ideas somewhat hilarious - "You know, we have a video of that one time when an assassin was wrong! Better give up and join us".

[Code Classified]

Автор сообщения: AlexMBrennan

So what should Shay have done? Come back empty handed because his research had turned out that taking the artefact would result in an earthquake that would destroy Lisbon? How well do you think that would have gone over given that Achilles completely ignored Shay when he had hard evidence that touching the objects will result in disaster?

number 1 is still way btr choice, yes it was a hard gamble, but ultimately assassins do what is good, and want freedom for people, templars just want loyal slaves n "order"

That factor doesn't come into it really - Achillies will blindly go chasing after these arefacts, likely cause more disasters unless he is stopped.

And since Shay is the only one who knows this, he is the only one who could prevent it (first by trying to steal the book, later by joining the templars).
That doesn't mean that the Assassins are wrong as such, just that they had one incompetent leader who left Shay with no other choice than defection (unless you think the Assassin's cause justifies letting Achilles blow up London, Paris, Moscow and so on).
The tragedy is that all of that could have been avoided, but alas, was not.

And to be honest, I find Berg's ideas somewhat hilarious - "You know, we have a video of that one time when an assassin was wrong! Better give up and join us".

Well u shouldn't ask me bout that Paris, and London and Moscow, cause i am one of those ppl that would sacrifice milions to save bilions, without blink of an eye, if i would be certain that killing many many many innocent would give btr life to future generations i wouldn't think for a second. I am all for freedom etc. but also for sacrifices, but yeah now i would go into politics, and my crazy half psycho views so i gonna stop right about.......... Noooooow :p

[Forsaken Buge]

Why do you guys think he is stupid? Achilles would've kept sending people to retrieve this stuff, and cities would fall killing hundreds or more, Assassins aren't supposed to cause death to citizens, which is what happened in Lisbon, Protugal, he was mad at them for not telling him that it might cause a freaking earth-quake, then when he just wanted to stop them from destroying cities, so he ran off with the book, his first intention was obviously not to join the templars but be more rightous with his skills, but the assassins sent their gang army and tried to kill him, so they shot him, he "died" then he was found by templars, the templars of course wanted him because of his knowledge and skill, the templars also found that really the assassins are false, they want freedom as in anarchy, yet they have hierarchy, which makes them false, so if they were true to their own cause they would live in a state of anarchy, with no version of government, no leaders, they would live as a team for example Brehon Law, where everyone works for each other, but the thing is that in Brehon law they have a government, even if it wasn't very powerful, the Assassins are like Brehon Law, they get stomped on and then after a while they get brought back, but then they get stomped, because a lot of people find that the "Templar System" where a government rules a society is much more effective, rather than a free world, and one thing that obviously brought the assassins down is that they worked with bad people, like pirates and gangsters, so in reality Shay Patrick Cormac was right to switch sides, if the Assassin Mentor was going to be stupid and send people to unknowingly destroy cities and kill hundreds, and in this timeline if Shay didn't do what he did, we might be living in rubble, I mean in their universe of course. Though this is probably all my opinion, I still stand by it, Achilles either knew or did not know what would happen, and the reason he joined the Templars, because in truth the assassins betrayed him, he wouldn't have killed them if they just didn't shoot him, so in reality the low intelegence level is on the Assassins, not shay, the reason why he seems stupid is because he joined the Templars, after a lot of players played as the "good guys" the assassins, though have you noticed that almost every templar you have killed, believed he was doing right? In the world of humans thier are rarely anyone doing wrong.