The Assassins are ridiculous in this game.

[Chicken Jockey]

Not a remote ounce of nuance in the character development of the assassins once Shay becomes a Templar. They are mustache twirling level bad guys until the very end, offering no explanation for their evil actions other than "die traitor!"

The game portrays Shay as a good guy the entire game, both as an assassin, and as a templar. There's no moral grey area, or a different look on the philosophies of the different groups. The Templars, despite being comically evil villains in previous installments, are portrayed as knights in shining armor with characters like George Monro, and Shay, while the assassins are absolute lunatics. In what universe would Ezio, or Altair decide to use f**cking poison gas on civilians? This isn't as simple as "both factions have positives and negatives," that is an unquestionably evil deed. And using generic orange colored goons to attack Albany, extort poor people, and kill random bystanders isn't "assassin chaos" it's just goon ♥♥♥♥. The only thing remotely assassin like about these assassins is the stalkers, and that's about it.

Achilles is an asshat the entire game, scolding you for not enjoying murdering people in Libson, and then telling you "you're arrogant lol" at the end of the game, before SHOVING YOU into the damn precursor artifact, that he knows by now will cause earthquakes and natural disasters. This goes far beyond the assassins losing their way, this is just straight up unapologetic psycho ♥♥♥♥. Am I supposed to believe *this* toolbox is who mentors Conor in ACIII? Because that is NOT the same person.

And WTF with Adewale? The guy who was the voice of reason in Black Flag literally goes, "Muhahahaha, you're too late to stop Achilles Shay." Like Adewale wouldn't once consider the dangers of these artifacts after Haiti and Libson? The assassins have no reason to not hear Shay out on his concerns, other than plot convenience. They either should have made Shay's reasons for becoming a templar far more grey or detailed, or they should have made him an antagonist, considering he kills Arno's dad, which could have set him up as a boss to be killed in Unity. This was just such lazy writing, and it's a shame, because you can see elements of brilliance not recognized, due to a lack of time to make the game.

[GamerXT]

The story could of been longer if not for being like a "bonus game", so things like nuance wasn't a factor.

Maybe if they remade it though, similar to the Black Flag rumours.

[Camerooni]

I believe the idea was meant to be that this was one of the propaganda games that abstergo "entertainment" were producing.. to win the hearts and minds of the general population and further the templar cause via a little bit of creative editing.

You're not going into your own memories (or rather Desmond/Layla's) per most of the mainline games but rather a curated software 'product' with a path that a narrative designer is pulling you along.

At least, that's how i try to make sense of it.. might have worked better if the modern world was like in a teenagers bedroom playing the finished product rather than an abstergo beta tester again after black flag.

[Charlie Kelly]

Originally posted by Chicken Jockey:

Not a remote ounce of nuance in the character development of the assassins once Shay becomes a Templar. They are mustache twirling level bad guys until the very end, offering no explanation for their evil actions other than "die traitor!"

The game portrays Shay as a good guy the entire game, both as an assassin, and as a templar. There's no moral grey area, or a different look on the philosophies of the different groups. The Templars, despite being comically evil villains in previous installments, are portrayed as knights in shining armor with characters like George Monro, and Shay, while the assassins are absolute lunatics. In what universe would Ezio, or Altair decide to use f**cking poison gas on civilians? This isn't as simple as "both factions have positives and negatives," that is an unquestionably evil deed. And using generic orange colored goons to attack Albany, extort poor people, and kill random bystanders isn't "assassin chaos" it's just goon ♥♥♥♥. The only thing remotely assassin like about these assassins is the stalkers, and that's about it.

Achilles is an asshat the entire game, scolding you for not enjoying murdering people in Libson, and then telling you "you're arrogant lol" at the end of the game, before SHOVING YOU into the damn precursor artifact, that he knows by now will cause earthquakes and natural disasters. This goes far beyond the assassins losing their way, this is just straight up unapologetic psycho ♥♥♥♥. Am I supposed to believe *this* toolbox is who mentors Conor in ACIII? Because that is NOT the same person.

And WTF with Adewale? The guy who was the voice of reason in Black Flag literally goes, "Muhahahaha, you're too late to stop Achilles Shay." Like Adewale wouldn't once consider the dangers of these artifacts after Haiti and Libson? The assassins have no reason to not hear Shay out on his concerns, other than plot convenience. They either should have made Shay's reasons for becoming a templar far more grey or detailed, or they should have made him an antagonist, considering he kills Arno's dad, which could have set him up as a boss to be killed in Unity. This was just such lazy writing, and it's a shame, because you can see elements of brilliance not recognized, due to a lack of time to make the game.

Who is to say that every Assassin in the brotherhood is as morally good as Ezio and who is that say that every Templar can't be morally good like Shay. If anything, this game brings forth the idea that history is not always as it seems.

[GamerXT]

Originally posted by Camerooni:

You're not going into your own memories (or rather Desmond/Layla's) per most of the mainline games but rather a curated software 'product' with a path that a narrative designer is pulling you along.

Not sure about Rogue, yet I'm quite sure in Black Flagit's someone else's memory the player was going thru. The Templars where seeking historic data like usual, and they simply pretended it was for inspiration to create a game.

[Basan™]

Originally posted by GamerXT:

Originally posted by Camerooni:

You're not going into your own memories (or rather Desmond/Layla's) per most of the mainline games but rather a curated software 'product' with a path that a narrative designer is pulling you along.

Not sure about Rogue, yet I'm quite sure in Black Flagit's someone else's memory the player was going thru. The Templars where seeking historic data like usual, and they simply pretended it was for inspiration to create a game.

Then take the chance to try learning a little more about Assassin's Creed: Rogue's (AC: Rogue's) story[assassinscreed.fandom.com] before trying to hi-jack this into another Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag (AC IV: BF thread.

And also please allow me to fill in some partial blanks of yours reggarding the AC IV: BF's plots. You're playing the role of an Abstergo Industries employee to view/scan the DNA/genetic memories of the Edwards Kenway subject, a pirate in the Caribbeans Seas, searching to obtain footage good enough to then make a priate's film/movie out of it all.

[Based Legionary™]

Shay is portrayed as the good guy because templars have always been the good guys

Assassins are just anarchists in cool robes

[GamerXT]

The Templars don't seem that good with how scheming they are. Trying to control things from the shadows, etc.

[Chicken Jockey]

Originally posted by Camerooni:

I believe the idea was meant to be that this was one of the propaganda games that abstergo "entertainment" were producing.. to win the hearts and minds of the general population and further the templar cause via a little bit of creative editing.

You're not going into your own memories (or rather Desmond/Layla's) per most of the mainline games but rather a curated software 'product' with a path that a narrative designer is pulling you along.

At least, that's how i try to make sense of it.. might have worked better if the modern world was like in a teenagers bedroom playing the finished product rather than an abstergo beta tester again after black flag.

None of that is stated however and is pure speculation. And to address the idea that not all assassins are good, I'm well aware. But we know who Adewale and Achilles are, and they don't behave like this outside of Rouge. Not in a million years would Adewale of AC4 or freedom cry, or Achilles of ACIII greenlight using poison gas on civilians, nor would they casually dismiss the idea of a massive earthquake being caused by one of their own. If they wanted to do the whole arrogant collapse of the jedi style purge, they should have made Shay a villain, or be a flawed character.

[Punished Rusty Shackleford]

Originally posted by Chicken Jockey:

The game portrays Shay as a good guy the entire game,

This was the only game where you play as the good guys.

[Punished Rusty Shackleford]

Originally posted by GamerXT:

The story could of been longer if not for being like a "bonus game", so things like nuance wasn't a factor.

The only reason this game was made so people who didn't but a PS4 or XBONE yet would still get an AC game that year for the xbox360/PS3.

[Camerooni]

in black flag you're an Abstergo researcher.. in rogue you're a beta tester..

can see why the experience you're playing through is a bit different now? one is pre-narrative designer.. second is post.. i.e after the propaganda has been made more favourable..

yes Shay turned from the assassin's and joined the Templars.. but don't you think it's strange that his view of the other characters is so different, like.. over the top different to how they are presented in black flag?

"this game doesn't mesh with everything else I've seen about the assassin's"

uhh - yeah 👍 that's how propaganda and rewriting history works.. <insert reference to current events that omg politics here>

[GamerXT]

If the player is supposedly playing an already completed game from Abstergo, I guess that does make sense why some characters seem different then. So Shay's true reasons where less noble after all, if again, it isn't the original story.

It's sort of odd though that Abstergo would make a game that acknowledges the Templar's existence, even if they think people wouldn't believe in them since it's a game story. Unless the Templars are publicly known like those from history, and simply not what their activities are.

Originally posted by Basan™:

Then take the chance to try learning a little more about Assassin's Creed: Rogue's (AC: Rogue's) story[assassinscreed.fandom.com] before trying to hi-jack this into another Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag (AC IV: BF thread.

I simply presumed Rogue might be using some of the same story ideas, which it might still do if what Camerooni says is more of a theory.

Originally posted by Basan™:

And also please allow me to fill in some partial blanks of yours reggarding the AC IV: BF's plots. You're playing the role of an Abstergo Industries employee to view/scan the DNA/genetic memories of the Edwards Kenway subject, a pirate in the Caribbeans Seas, searching to obtain footage good enough to then make a priate's film/movie out of it all.

Which I'm sure was an excuse to look for artefacts like Abstergo where with Desmond though. Like I doubt Black Flag was simply about creating a pro Templar movie or game, especially considering the artefact from Kenway's story.

[Camerooni]

I don't think there's many interviews with the design intent of rogue as opposed to black flag at the time beyond we wanted to release something for existing consoles at the same time.. and maybe they were treated as second class citizens during development so they purposely messed with the darling child game characters.. but the idea and indeed whole world building around Abstergo entertainment was to mine memories for entertainment and to bring the underlying message of control and subservience to 'order' and how dangerous and chaotic a world based purely upon individual freedoms (at least to those trying to maintain power) would be.. that the propaganda aspect is the only real telling you can take from it (in my opinion).

but.. *shrugs* I'm not going to go all Templar and push my views on you :D

we do work in the shadow to serve the light after all.. :p

[GamerXT]

It's true that there should be order to some degree, yet when it includes things like the Templars helping to start WW2 ( even if they intended for the allies to win ), it becomes more about the extremes of that and being super authoritarian.

There's also the fact that Assassin's Creed usually frames the Templars as being nefarious in general.

[Camerooni]

Originally posted by GamerXT:

There's also the fact that Assassin's Creed usually frames the Templars as being nefarious in general.

that's because the idea of a very small group of people controlling the majority for personal enrichment and dehumanisation/treatment of other people as cattle *should* be seen as nefarious.. lol

..umm and if being a part of that group is aspirational to you, then.. uhh.. yeah.. not much else to say really.