Is the AI actually that silly?

[GreenOne]

Haven't yet tried the game, need to upgrade PC first, however watched some footage and it looks like AI is very stupid. Here are some things I came up with:

A player beaten the game guns blazing: enemy would fail to find the person responsible for "Unidentified gunfire". As if they didn't hear where it was coming from and couldn't send a proper squad. What is the point of stealth, if they won't find you anyway and it's easier to shoot the way though?

Snake could sneak to the side of an enemy guard who was unable to see that, even after Snake standing up and reloading a gun, while peripherial vision of a regular human is very sensetive to motion.

Guards seem deaf as well, they could have some sixth sense or something to at least look around occasionally when Snake is nearby & performing some actions. I believe even crawling could cause some occasional suspicious noise that could at least make guards in close proximity(say, 2.5 m) to wonder and look around.

Guards don't seem to turn around when investigating the noise, can be looking at a wall or some empty space for a few seconds without turning their head even a bit, instead looking around.

People post videos where they throw guards down, but by the moment they get up they get scared again by Snake's hold up/surpirsed by other mates laying around/surprised by Snake's presence(having seen him before he threw them down).

Guards didn't seem to use cover much, or run straight at the gunfire.
When Snake rises his gun at Guards could at least dive to nearest cover or try open fire first, but they don't realize they are about to die.

And it looks like enemy can take too much gunfire while a few kicks KO them, it needs to be the opposite.

I know it might look different from how it plays, so I wonder what people who played the game can say about all that. Can you confirm anything of that to be truth or false?
I prefer when opponents in game are about as equally skilled and actually provide the challenge, no fun inflitrating/slaughtering the awkward defenseless hamsters. I hope in TPP it will feel right.

[Overseer]

I don't know what you mean, but usually the AI locates you through sound, unless you have a silencer of course, which then causes the AI to find the damaged or dead but is unable to locate the origin.

Have you ever played any MGS? Because the AI always had that charm while still providing a challenge. The game is about stealth and provides the best stealth mechanics you will find on the market. You either like that or wait 10 year until we have more details.

[ishiki]

stealth games do this, and always have (Atleast Splinter Cell, Deus Ex, and MGS)

but yes this games does that. Not worse than those though. There's videos of every stealth game where you can make the AI look really stupid and break it.

[GreenOne]

You seem to take it too close to heart and as offense, wile I intended to learn wether the things I came up with were actually truth and how it feels in general.

Overseer, not sure what you are confused about exactly, I've made several statements, and as of silencer, AI seem to have big troubles finding Snake even when he dosn't use silencer, like in this video. It overall looks like there is no point to go stealth other than if you just want to. I wish heavier AI response to loud style to balance that.
As of playing MGS, I only beaten Peace Walker, it was fun, but mostly due to story and base development. Stealth wasn't too good, but it was fine for portable experience. And enemy reinforcements felt way better, they could actually find you faster and they came in nice groups and with nice gear. The major challenge was actually shooting in action, don't get how people play & enjoy shooting with gamepads, no offense.
And why would you come up with such a suggestion to wait for 10 friggin years? All I asked is wether the impressions I got were actual state of things in this game.

ishiki, well, yes, but I just hoped for more hardcore challenge, because it looks like failing stealth is not really punished, thus why try be silent, if you can go guns blazing.
Another thing, at times it looks like Snake doesn't need to be very silent and still, even when enemy is almost at hand's reach.
And lastly AI is just dumb & careless at times, by the looks of it, so you don't feel threatened by an entire squad of armed people, I think if it was otherwise it would be a more adrenaline pumping and exciting experience.

You say it's not worse than in the other games though, that's soothing. But I hope it can be better than those, because those didn't deliver much excitement to me as of the stealth part.
I expect more because it fells like it's to be the biggest MGS with some huge improvements.

Anyway MGS has more to offer, like Story, Base Building and Online Play, but Stealth and Skirmish are also big parts of it, it would be extremely good game even without them being much above average, but if they were, that would make for some ultimate experience. I see only positive outcome of AI improvement, so why not?
Have big hopes for this, maybe we can get better modding support to tweak it further.

Thanks for the information!

[MercenarySnake]

Yeah they can be pretty stupid like firing a weapon without a silencer nearby an enemy who stood there like an idiot talking in his radio about a noise they couldn't locate and other silly nonsense like that. They can be okay sometimes though.

[johncage]

i think it's a valid criticism. they should have an option at least to turn on proper ai. but keep in mind the ai is already a million times better than previous games in the series

[GreenOne]

Well, that's nice to hear that AI is overall improved, that's a relief. It just felt in Peace Walker that the AI would do a better job at sending proper forces to Snake, and they seemed to do much better at spotting.

Though still it often looks quite unnatural and silly in such a serious game(aside the joke moments). And anyway it seems to be quite easy to implement fixes for the notes I had, at least from the programmer point of view, I have some experience in C++ and game coding, not much, but still. Hopefully modding becomes more accessible, though I'd prefer it to be fixed in vanilla.

[Herja]

If it was too realistic It would be game over the first time somone even has the slightest suspition that you were there. Ever seen a police manhunt where they block off an entire section of a neighborhood and dozens of patrol units, dogs, and air support scan the area block by block bush by bush after somone attempted to evade arrest?

Now imagine an intruder in a military base, there would be nowhere to hide and they wouldn't give up. The place would be on lockdown for weeks until you were captured.

And while that might be fun a few times, It would quickly get frustrating.

[Hekatonkheires]

I think the best thing is when there are a group of three and you throw a magazine. They all just stare in the direction you threw it in while you headshot them.

[glovernor]

The AI isn't nearly as aggressive as it is in the previous games and the open nature of the camp means that it's almost completely impossible for you to get cornered. If you trigger an alert all you have to do is kick into overdrive with your bionic legs, run to another area of the camp and turn a corner--boom you're out. If you don't care about rank that is.


There are a ton of flaws with their current system right now and there isn't nearly as much detail or refinement as the previous ones because they've switched to a completely different (new) engine with a completely different formula this time around.

Hopefully things will be better in TPP.

[shadowbroker]

Originally posted by GreenFlame:

Haven't yet tried the game, need to upgrade PC first, however watched some footage and it looks like AI is very stupid. Here are some things I came up with:

Snake could sneak to the side of an enemy guard who was unable to see that, even after Snake standing up and reloading a gun, while peripherial vision of a regular human is very sensetive to motion.

Guards seem deaf as well, they could have some sixth sense or something to at least look around occasionally when Snake is nearby & performing some actions. I believe even crawling could cause some occasional suspicious noise that could at least make guards in close proximity(say, 2.5 m) to wonder and look around.

Guards don't seem to turn around when investigating the noise, can be looking at a wall or some empty space for a few seconds without turning their head even a bit, instead looking around.

AI depends what difficulty do you playing. Actually normal difficulty in ground zeroes should been named ''easy'' because in normal difficulty AI is very stupid, they can't hear you, can't see you, they are dumbass but in hard difficulty AI is like normal person. They will see, they will hear you like normal people, and they are very deadly too.

If you ask me I prefer playing on hard difficulty in stealth games. Because it's ''normal'' for me.

Originally posted by GreenFlame:

A player beaten the game guns blazing: enemy would fail to find the person responsible for "Unidentified gunfire". As if they didn't hear where it was coming from and couldn't send a proper squad. What is the point of stealth, if they won't find you anyway and it's easier to shoot the way though?

When you fire, the enemy in nearby looks the direction of the sound came from. They can spot where you fire and after report to CP they will search the area for you.

Originally posted by GreenFlame:

What is the point of stealth, if they won't find you anyway and it's easier to shoot the way though?

If you keep killing the enemy without entering alert mode and change your position constantly they can't find you. Especially in alert mode, they will find you. If you keep killing enemy the Cp sends the backup and the things gets worse. Eventually they will kill you if you won't run. Even so the game is not so hard in hard difficulty.

I prefer playing stealth because I don't wanna mess with the enemy, they are very troublesome. If you don't wanna mess with the enemy and won't mind lose some time you can prefer action, it's good thing the game allow you to playing without stealth.

[GreenOne]

Originally posted by Dosukoi!:

If it was too realistic It would be game over the first time somone even has the slightest suspition that you were there. Ever seen a police manhunt where they block off an entire section of a neighborhood and dozens of patrol units, dogs, and air support scan the area block by block bush by bush after somone attempted to evade arrest?

Now imagine an intruder in a military base, there would be nowhere to hide and they wouldn't give up. The place would be on lockdown for weeks until you were captured.

And while that might be fun a few times, It would quickly get frustrating.

Well, as of now it looks stupid even for a game. something between that and realistic would be nice. Game without real challenge is not a game but a toy, routine headshots make no appeal to me. I hope it's not like what it looks, but hard to believe. Anyway looking forward the game, at least the story has got to be absolutely mindblowing =)

Originally posted by Hekatonkheires:

I think the best thing is when there are a group of three and you throw a magazine. They all just stare in the direction you threw it in while you headshot them.

Even though it's kind of sad, I bursted laughing xD

Lieutenant Skully, yeah, I hope it will be fixed, wonder if stuff here gets to the developers eventually, maybe if enough people say it, it will be heard and even addressed =)

[A Jaggens XIV]

A game doesn't operate using real world logic. Go figure.

[GreenOne]

Naroiden, yea, I also prefer harder difficulty in games, no challenge = no game, though most do it wrong, by making enemies have incredibly high damage and health, which is stupid. I hope here it's done right.

As of searching, as I described, a Guard was staring at fence lit by his flashlight for a few seconds without moving at all, wish I had the video. Or Snake would be crawling on a roof 2.5 m above the guard, I think it would be still possible to hear, especially it's suspicious if you know there are hostiles.
I'd prefer Snake to have to absolutely freeze when enemy is that close.
Wish AI looked around more, especially if it knows there is something. And fighting capabilites of AI could be a lot better, maybe not even the damage output but their actions.

I wish triggering aleart had more notable consequences, so that AI would find you way faster and soon enough heavy armed guys would show up. So that you either have to hide very well or would have to retreat fast enough, because soon it would become really hot. Maybe so that you'd have to be firing back while retreating, if they got your track.
Though if you took heavy gear with you would have much easier time clearing the area to do your task there, before, say, heavy stuff/choppers with better armed guys arrive.
Of course that's would be an average mission, some areas could be easy to go guns blazing in sneaking suit, in case you change your mind from going stealth/screw something; while some would be nearly impossible to beat without heavy gear(or even with it), and require immediate evacuation.
In theory, that sounds fun to me, and, in theory, what I've seen can get boring. Though there is a badass story/base building/online that have tons of value, but combat improvement would multiply all that, and it doesn't seem to be hard to do, since the engine, models, sounds and animations are already done, it's just code fine-tuning, seems worth it.

Please don't take all the criticism as offense, I like MGS a ton and very excited, that's why I care to write all that hoping issues being fixed/being false impressions.
Thanks for the information, guys!

[dookie]

that is the japanese humor and always has been of metal gear solid , its supposed to be funny at some parts

[shadowbroker]

Originally posted by GreenFlame:

As of searching, as I described, a Guard was staring at fence lit by his flashlight for a few seconds without moving at all, wish I had the video.

So it must be main mission. In main mission, rain + night cause reduce the enemy's sight and hearing ability, therefore it's easy to go stealth in main mission. Watch some video of more clear day one missions.