Spellforce 4

[Lord Haart]

What would you like to see different ?

[NeoX]

Almost everything. Back to the roots to SF2 RPG with SF1 RTS!

[Lord Haart]

Ppl say SF3 is no good and doesn't have stuff from the others. I just played for an hour and was thoroughly entertained.

Please tell me the stuff it's bad on.

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Lord Haart:

Ppl say SF3 is no good and doesn't have stuff from the others. I just played for an hour and was thoroughly entertained.

Please tell me the stuff it's bad on.

I don't say it is a bad game. I say it is a bad SpellForce game in my PoV.

Biggest flaws in my taste:

- No free game mode
- Nothing to do after the campaign except PVP (by default)
- No 3rd person view by default (we had to mod it in by ourself -> SF3-AC-Patch)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1558390462

- very restricked RTS-system because of the sector-system (no fun for me at all)
- No Day & Night cycle like the old ones
- Canon SpellForce story broken many times

But please don't let these points influence your taste of the game. These are just my poV and game taste. :-)

[Lord Haart]

Ahh...a free mode I was looking forward to. Hasn't it been modded in ? Is there even Steam Workshop™ ?

Also I do note that there are very few maps in skirmish, although there's supposed to be a patch somewhere that adds a bomb-load of maps.

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Lord Haart:

Ahh...a free mode I was looking forward to. Hasn't it been modded in ? Is there even Steam Workshop™ ?

Also I do note that there are very few maps in skirmish, although there's supposed to be a patch somewhere that adds a bomb-load of maps.

I just send you to your own threat :-)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/311290/discussions/0/1647665620921649484/

And sadly we don't have a "native free game mode". We have created some "Quest" maps that play like a free game mode, but it's no whole campaign with progress-transfair like the old ones.
But it is still some fun :-)


Quest - Peak Mountains:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1416111066

Quest - Dracos Island:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1539246145

[Doromeo]

Originally posted by NeoX:

Almost everything. Back to the roots to SF2 RPG with SF1 RTS!

I'd say the comeback to the roots of classic RPG, it is first main thing, - where is the powerful character editor set, and features which meet today's challenges of the game industry. SF1 has many unique features, just to add something new and to redone everything in new vision.

RTS - to delete the rushing gameplay mechanics and create strong economical part, with different tactics of building process. Removing identical units and identical gameplay of fractions. Troops must take different formations and also go by formations. Unit improvements should take graphical changes and then only numeric like SF1 has.

= 3d view=
= Free game mode =
I doubt very much that SF4 will be released, most likely the saga will end at 3.

[Grakor]

The two main flaws with SF3 are, imo, the lack of a free game mode, and the state of the RTS sections.

I don't mind the sector system, and I don't get why people are against it. That said, the RTS sections are really bad. In the previous games, enemies came in semi-predictable directions and times, coming in waves from set camps or spawn points. In SF3, enemies expand everywhere and attack all of your borders near constantly. This sounds good in terms of increasing difficulty, but it doesn't work well in a game where you're also expected to talk to NPCs, do quests, and explore while also fending off enemy attacks. You just don't have the time to do everything simultaneously.

So, basically, most RTS sections just get hero-rushed. The RTS factions themselves are also too similar, and very imbalanced (orcs suck hardcore in this one because of how important static defenses are, for the above reasons.)

That said, I still very much enjoyed SF3. It has, IMO, the best story of the Spellforce games. Good characterization. Gor and Yria are the best-written characters in the series.

[Doromeo]

Originally posted by Grakor:

That said, I still very much enjoyed SF3. It has, IMO, the best story of the Spellforce games. Good characterization. Gor and Yria are the best-written characters in the series.

I do not argue there is a good story and good characters, and stunning graphic design. But SF3 in terms of RPG is very weak. l 'd understand if the release was exclusively for PS, but only for PC ? Sorry, maybe i dont understand, but i think fans of RPG will confirm my words.
SF3 RPG is just resting in comparison with the SF2 RPG, more even there was an adequate character development tree. Developers did not strain themselves much, and simply created a leveling up of little skills based on the system of many mobile RPG, but more even now they offer much greater potential than SF3.
Such system just needs to be thrown out of the future game, and take an example from Neverwinter Nigths or from old schools games.

Just the project must be divided into two teams - RPG, RTS instead of RPG/RTS all time. Each part needs to be developed separately. Srategy should be a strategy, role-playing shoud be role-playing game, - and do not to cut all the wonderful features from two side for the sake of balance, - all components lose their price, which is what happened with SF3.

Perhaps the developers of SF1 understood this. They was focused on the main character, the companions did not have the opportunity to leveling - I think this has a definite meaning.

In a future game I would make RPG like that:

I would return the system of magic scrolls, with the possibility of leveling, instead of buying from sellers. I'd divide magic into ordinary, rare, legendary and epic. Epic scrolls by killing bosses, , legendary and rare by quests, ordinary by skills.
I'd introduce the possibility of creating and improving outfits by collecting the necessary resources and drawings,. I'd create game fractions and quests. Instead of companions i'd return the rune system, opportunity to forge the runes, and enclose in them dead creatures and enemy. I'd create a completely open world, remove linearity from the game, build the whole game on additional quests and stories. Decisions affect the world, the main character will be able to convince, intimidate, deceive through the system of pumping certain skills.
I'd create and scatter 20-30 unique armor sets around the game world, and make more slots for equipment( shoulders, pants, bracers, belt, boots) - opportunity to repaint it in the smithy by collecting ingredients. I'd create a leveling system for enemies when you return to the maps again and take new hero level. Dialogues in 3d for complete immersion in the world. I would build a system of an ordinary warrior, on a dodge, defense, strength, health - where there is a chance of block, dodge, critical strike, - the ability to create any game class through buying statistics points through mentors, or by finish quests.
I would create a powerful character editor in 3d, - choice of race, bonuses, voice, deity worship, ideology.
In general, all the best that has an old school RPG but with SpellForce Features - it will be Great!

[rubyismycat]

how about ♥♥♥♥ off and just FIX THE BUGS in spellforce order of dawn that creates an enemy base with 600 elite crossbowmen in it breaking the game how aqbout fixing the game breaking lvl 30 mozaic quest camera bug which breaks spellforce 2 before trying to palm off anymore badly executed attempts at cashing in on a once great game franchise

[NeoX]

Originally posted by rubyismycat:

how about ♥♥♥♥ off and just FIX THE BUGS in spellforce order of dawn that creates an enemy base with 600 elite crossbowmen in it breaking the game how aqbout fixing the game breaking lvl 30 mozaic quest camera bug which breaks spellforce 2 before trying to palm off anymore badly executed attempts at cashing in on a once great game franchise

And again, wrong forum buddy.

[Lord Farquaad]

Originally posted by Lord Haart:

What would you like to see different ?

, definitely the rpg from SF 1, though I haven't played SF 3 much yet, SF 1's rpg is clearly deeper and more flexible than that from SF 2 and it seems from SF 3 too.
Preferable the rts part from SF 1 too (especially the unique loose enemy camps + enemy scouting AI), though I wouldn't mind a different base-building rts style either (I have too little experience with the current SF 3 rts parts yet but it seems quite decent, though I also liked Settlers, Rise of Nations & Warhammer 40k so I don't mind the sector-based parts I think).

Where I think SF 3 is so far best with (/better than SF1/2):
- voice casting
- some of the dialogue
- Click&Fight(?), the slow time + ability hotkeys function (kuddo's to the devs)
- and obviously the graphics, though some anim's and spells lack some 'force'. For example when I hit an enemy in SF 1 with a 2-handed hammer with a high strength hero/avatar, the enemy is really in pain, while in SF 2 this seems to be removed/rebalanced and SF 3 seems to be somewhere in the middle.

[Lord Farquaad]

Originally posted by Doromeo:

Perhaps the developers of SF1 understood this. They was focused on the main character, the companions did not have the opportunity to leveling - I think this has a definite meaning.

In a future game I would make RPG like that:....

, I think you are right with that the SF 1 dev's seem to have focused more on creating a rpg game first and than how rts parts could smartly fit between the rpg parts. I haven't yet played enough of the rts parts of SF 3 to give a meaningful opinion, it sounds though that by implementing the sector-based system the game's scope got to broad. I think why SF 1's rts part worked so well was because it was not to complicated (while still a fun addition), so you could focus also on exploring the maps and doing quests etc.

[NeoX]

I mostly hope for a complete new engine that supports all features of the spellforce-series. Sadly thats not the case with the current one of SF3.

[Doromeo]

Originally posted by Cruisetology:

Originally posted by Doromeo:

Perhaps the developers of SF1 understood this. They was focused on the main character, the companions did not have the opportunity to leveling - I think this has a definite meaning.

I think why SF 1's rts part worked so well was because it was not to complicated (while still a fun addition), so you could focus also on exploring the maps and doing quests etc.

То my mind SF3 RTS loses because of rushing gameplay style and weak economy firstly, not a sectors system( although I do not like it, - constant playing voltage from constant spamming of the enemy on all your territory).
SF1 had at least the banal economy: to hire a soldier, it was necessary to build a smithy, faster - more forges. Also was a possibility for upgrade units to choose from 1-2. Food prey is not just hunters, SF1 has different ways for food production.
Secondly, - monotony of races.
SF1 offered a balance of the magic level: Elfs - healing and ranged combat, Dark Elfs - necromancy, Dwarfs - defense against dark, Trolls - melee masters, Humans - support magic and warfare, Orks - elemental magic and war.
But SF3: same against same - it is balanced balance.

The only one strong mistake of SF1 is that the units of the first stage were not used after next.

Developers of SF3 did banally, the units of the last stage become difficult to hire, therefore i have to use the weak.

But this should not be, because what's the point, it is not interesting.
The player must form his own troops as a deck of cards - 3 nines win, two aces lose. And not just face the fact - expensive or poor.

This can be corrected in a such way - make all 10 units strong so that the firs can compete with the last units, by effects of the improvements, and troop enforcement. Or even make 10 equivalent units, just to get them, you need to improve the economy, - for mercenary, you need this building, in the same turn, for this building you need another - economic chain.

In this case, the RTS will grow in value - because it is a certain interest in the structure of your city where actually to conquer it, you will need to hard try.

But about what I am saying is a very ambitious and not simple project, - therefore, as part of RPG and RTS are two big and sterling games in one.

SF1, SF2, SF3 - pinched potential of RPG and RTS.
And If will be SF4 - the stated above fact needs to be completely revised.

[Meuh]

I think we shall also mention what should be kept because SF3 is far from being bad.
The good: story plot, voice acting, translation, graphics, music. Also I finally enjoyed the Click&Fight when I finally understood it :)....
The need to improve: controls (Ctrl+middle click for rotation, for god sake!!), better RTS mechanics that is way too restricted to be interesting