Health and Mana regen

[Leo]

This game would definitely be much more enjoyable if the regeneration of mana and health was increased by just 30%. Fighting a mob for 1 minute and then having to wait another to get back in the fight as a caster, (looking at you cleric players), just feels bad and slows down the game play unnecessarily. Thoughts?

[Sairek Ceareste]

It's definitely becoming a problem by mid game. It's really bad when it takes my entire mana pool and then some to buff the entire party.

If I have to finish a fight, rest for mana, then rebuff, then rest again, then rebuff the rest of the party, then rest again, it can genuinely take nearly 3+ minutes of just resting to get my mana topped up and all the buffs refreshed. And that's with using the +20% mana restoration in-between to help accelerate the process.


Personally I wish they'd flatten out the resting speed a bit or just make resting recover a flat % amount per tick period so it's normalized throughout.

The current system causes you to sit there for 45 seconds and then the last 15 seconds you just get turbo charged and the last quarter is where you actually get 75% of your recovery done. The previous 45 seconds are just filler for the last 15 seconds. The disparity between waiting for half a mana bar and a full mana bar is almost miniscule because they almost take the same amount of time to recover, and that shouldn't be the case.
The current system encourages you to just use everything than rest, rather than try to preserve resources. Preserving resources before resting doesn't make the actual resting process any shorter except by just a few seconds.

[Leo]

I honestly could not have put it any better. You hit the nail square on the head explaining the 75% recovery at the end and the first 45 seconds feel wasted.

[DiceWrangler]

Personally, I like the ramping-up of regen rates because it makes the sit->stand->cast->sit cycle during combat nearly pointless. Resting between fights is part of Pantheon's tenets to encourage more socialization. You can also use that time to discuss tactics and party coordination for the types of enemies that you expect to be fighting.

[Tanist]

Originally posted by Leo:

This game would definitely be much more enjoyable if the regeneration of mana and health was increased by just 30%. Fighting a mob for 1 minute and then having to wait another to get back in the fight as a caster, (looking at you cleric players), just feels bad and slows down the game play unnecessarily. Thoughts?

It is because you are used to modern games which have non-existent rest or down time.

With down times comes a different type of strategy.

That is, resource management isn't just about the fight, it is about outside of the fight as well.

So, consider the type of mob system it is where mobs are on timers and players generally hold "camps" in play. So you will work hard to clear out an area and then setup camp. Mobs re-spawn and you continue the camp as well as dealing with runners (ie mob runs off and agros another group area) as well as pathing mobs that wander in the camp.

If you don't manage your resources well IN the fight then you could be in a bad position after it is over if mobs pop or path into your camp.

This whole process is a part of this style of game play and if you reduce down time to the point where this is a non issue, it defeats the entire concept of this resource management play.

2-3 mins is honestly... extremely short compared to games this one is taking inspiration from. I understand people complaining about it, but it is just something that takes time to get used to and how the play works.

Also, keep in mind this will come down to how well you learn various aspects of play. The better you get at understanding your spells, when to use them, how much to use them, etc.. the better you will get at being prepared for what comes next essentially speeding up your readiness.

I have seen some people complain about down time with classes I have virtually none because they aren't paying attention to their resources. They treat every fight as "must kill mob fast as possible" and ultimately waste a lot of resources or miss the benefits of spells/abilities that help to build them up within combat.

Point is, any faster and this game loses its entire point in this concept of play and to be honest, as it is... I think it is way too fast in its play.

[Sairek Ceareste]

Originally posted by Tanist:

Originally posted by Leo:

This game would definitely be much more enjoyable if the regeneration of mana and health was increased by just 30%. Fighting a mob for 1 minute and then having to wait another to get back in the fight as a caster, (looking at you cleric players), just feels bad and slows down the game play unnecessarily. Thoughts?

It is because you are used to modern games which have non-existent rest or down time.

With down times comes a different type of strategy.

That is, resource management isn't just about the fight, it is about outside of the fight as well.

So, consider the type of mob system it is where mobs are on timers and players generally hold "camps" in play. So you will work hard to clear out an area and then setup camp. Mobs re-spawn and you continue the camp as well as dealing with runners (ie mob runs off and agros another group area) as well as pathing mobs that wander in the camp.

If you don't manage your resources well IN the fight then you could be in a bad position after it is over if mobs pop or path into your camp.

This whole process is a part of this style of game play and if you reduce down time to the point where this is a non issue, it defeats the entire concept of this resource management play.

2-3 mins is honestly... extremely short compared to games this one is taking inspiration from. I understand people complaining about it, but it is just something that takes time to get used to and how the play works.

Also, keep in mind this will come down to how well you learn various aspects of play. The better you get at understanding your spells, when to use them, how much to use them, etc.. the better you will get at being prepared for what comes next essentially speeding up your readiness.

I have seen some people complain about down time with classes I have virtually none because they aren't paying attention to their resources. They treat every fight as "must kill mob fast as possible" and ultimately waste a lot of resources or miss the benefits of spells/abilities that help to build them up within combat.

Point is, any faster and this game loses its entire point in this concept of play and to be honest, as it is... I think it is way too fast in its play.

I don't know why you're assuming what games he has played. He could have played lots of classic games for all you know. That's a huge assumption to make on nothing more than a single post.


I think in my own post it's clear that I disagree, I don't think 75% of the resources you recover should be in the last 25% phase of resting, but regardless, how fast (or slower in this case) would you personally prefer?

[welly321]

Originally posted by Sairek Ceareste:

Originally posted by Tanist:

It is because you are used to modern games which have non-existent rest or down time.

With down times comes a different type of strategy.

That is, resource management isn't just about the fight, it is about outside of the fight as well.

So, consider the type of mob system it is where mobs are on timers and players generally hold "camps" in play. So you will work hard to clear out an area and then setup camp. Mobs re-spawn and you continue the camp as well as dealing with runners (ie mob runs off and agros another group area) as well as pathing mobs that wander in the camp.

If you don't manage your resources well IN the fight then you could be in a bad position after it is over if mobs pop or path into your camp.

This whole process is a part of this style of game play and if you reduce down time to the point where this is a non issue, it defeats the entire concept of this resource management play.

2-3 mins is honestly... extremely short compared to games this one is taking inspiration from. I understand people complaining about it, but it is just something that takes time to get used to and how the play works.

Also, keep in mind this will come down to how well you learn various aspects of play. The better you get at understanding your spells, when to use them, how much to use them, etc.. the better you will get at being prepared for what comes next essentially speeding up your readiness.

I have seen some people complain about down time with classes I have virtually none because they aren't paying attention to their resources. They treat every fight as "must kill mob fast as possible" and ultimately waste a lot of resources or miss the benefits of spells/abilities that help to build them up within combat.

Point is, any faster and this game loses its entire point in this concept of play and to be honest, as it is... I think it is way too fast in its play.

I don't know why you're assuming what games he has played. He could have played lots of classic games for all you know. That's a huge assumption to make on nothing more than a single post.


I think in my own post it's clear that I disagree, I don't think 75% of the resources you recover should be in the last 25% phase of resting, but regardless, how fast (or slower in this case) would you personally prefer?

sTOP ASSUMING MY GENDER

[Sairek Ceareste]

Originally posted by welly321:

Originally posted by Sairek Ceareste:

I don't know why you're assuming what games he has played. He could have played lots of classic games for all you know. That's a huge assumption to make on nothing more than a single post.


I think in my own post it's clear that I disagree, I don't think 75% of the resources you recover should be in the last 25% phase of resting, but regardless, how fast (or slower in this case) would you personally prefer?

sTOP ASSUMING MY GENDER

It's not an assumption given the masculine screen name and profile information that's actually available to see, in contrast to the library which is hidden that Leo doesn't want people to see. :P

[Tanist]

Originally posted by Sairek Ceareste:

Originally posted by Tanist:

It is because you are used to modern games which have non-existent rest or down time.

With down times comes a different type of strategy.

That is, resource management isn't just about the fight, it is about outside of the fight as well.

So, consider the type of mob system it is where mobs are on timers and players generally hold "camps" in play. So you will work hard to clear out an area and then setup camp. Mobs re-spawn and you continue the camp as well as dealing with runners (ie mob runs off and agros another group area) as well as pathing mobs that wander in the camp.

If you don't manage your resources well IN the fight then you could be in a bad position after it is over if mobs pop or path into your camp.

This whole process is a part of this style of game play and if you reduce down time to the point where this is a non issue, it defeats the entire concept of this resource management play.

2-3 mins is honestly... extremely short compared to games this one is taking inspiration from. I understand people complaining about it, but it is just something that takes time to get used to and how the play works.

Also, keep in mind this will come down to how well you learn various aspects of play. The better you get at understanding your spells, when to use them, how much to use them, etc.. the better you will get at being prepared for what comes next essentially speeding up your readiness.

I have seen some people complain about down time with classes I have virtually none because they aren't paying attention to their resources. They treat every fight as "must kill mob fast as possible" and ultimately waste a lot of resources or miss the benefits of spells/abilities that help to build them up within combat.

Point is, any faster and this game loses its entire point in this concept of play and to be honest, as it is... I think it is way too fast in its play.

I don't know why you're assuming what games he has played. He could have played lots of classic games for all you know. That's a huge assumption to make on nothing more than a single post.


I think in my own post it's clear that I disagree, I don't think 75% of the resources you recover should be in the last 25% phase of resting, but regardless, how fast (or slower in this case) would you personally prefer?

It is a logical assumption to a complaint that a downtime of a minute (or even 2-3 mins) is somehow too long.

Anyone who has played this style of game understands the importance of down time concerning that play.

So are you suggesting they know this, but simply want the game to be opposite of that style with little to no downtime?

You are arguing over 2-3 mins.. we already had this discussion, if it is shortened even more, down time will be near non-existent and all of the factors that deal with this style of play will be invalidated... that is unless you speed up spawn times to the point the game becomes a tower defense game of constant fighting with extremely short break intervals.

How do you propose to respect that concept of game play while reducing the down time to the levels you want?

[Mr Fred]

All I read is that OP played like 5 minutes and have 0 wisdom gear, you have a skill that give back a % of your max mana... thanks for the laugh.

[SouL]

Originally posted by Tanist:

Originally posted by Leo:

This game would definitely be much more enjoyable if the regeneration of mana and health was increased by just 30%. Fighting a mob for 1 minute and then having to wait another to get back in the fight as a caster, (looking at you cleric players), just feels bad and slows down the game play unnecessarily. Thoughts?

It is because you are used to modern games which have non-existent rest or down time.

Dude you have some serious issues, stop trying to gate keep every ones posts when they even remotely wonder if its worth giving Pantheon a QoL in certain areas of the game.

Ive been playing online games since Ultima Online back in the 90s and I can tell you right now that Pantheon is far from perfect so dont bother hitting me with the same comment you have posted to every one else, judging by your post history you need to go out and touch some grass as you seem unhinged and seemingly you live inside steam discussion.

[Tanist]

Originally posted by SouL:

Originally posted by Tanist:

It is because you are used to modern games which have non-existent rest or down time.

Dude you have some serious issues, stop trying to gate keep every ones posts when they even remotely wonder if its worth giving Pantheon a QoL in certain areas of the game.

Ive been playing online games since Ultima Online back in the 90s and I can tell you right now that Pantheon is far from perfect so dont bother hitting me with the same comment you have posted to every one else, judging by your post history you need to go out and touch some grass as you seem unhinged and seemingly you live inside steam discussion.

In all of your "offended outcry" never did you attend to the argument.

The argument is down time. The OP was complaining about 1 min of downtime in a game that is this style.

Since you are the MMO expert, then you should understand what down time means and how it effects this style of game.

So please explain to us all here, how you can reduce the down time to the levels they are asking and retain that functional style of play without increasing the spawn timers to the point where it becomes impractical (ie a constant spam of mobs spam popping to keep up with the non-existent down time).

Or... you can continue to complain about things that are irrelevant essentially making this personal as you are.

[Sairek Ceareste]

Originally posted by Tanist:

Originally posted by Sairek Ceareste:

I don't know why you're assuming what games he has played. He could have played lots of classic games for all you know. That's a huge assumption to make on nothing more than a single post.


I think in my own post it's clear that I disagree, I don't think 75% of the resources you recover should be in the last 25% phase of resting, but regardless, how fast (or slower in this case) would you personally prefer?

It is a logical assumption to a complaint that a downtime of a minute (or even 2-3 mins) is somehow too long.

Anyone who has played this style of game understands the importance of down time concerning that play.

So are you suggesting they know this, but simply want the game to be opposite of that style with little to no downtime?

You are arguing over 2-3 mins.. we already had this discussion, if it is shortened even more, down time will be near non-existent and all of the factors that deal with this style of play will be invalidated... that is unless you speed up spawn times to the point the game becomes a tower defense game of constant fighting with extremely short break intervals.

How do you propose to respect that concept of game play while reducing the down time to the levels you want?

I don't know why you're being so aggressive once again, but if you actually read either of my posts, you would have already seen my suggestion instead of throwing out some argument I said in another different thread.


Making it so the last 25% of your resting doesn't restore 75% of your resources by flattening the curve doesn't even necessarily impact the total amount of resting time needed when you're out of resources; so I don't even know why you're arguing this with me in this thread either.
My complaint with resting times has always been that it gets longer the more you level up because it doesn't scale properly with you.


The way accelerated resting rates are currently set up, if it takes me nearly just as long to wait for 1/3rd of my mana bar to be full as it does to recover my entire mana bar, there's little reason for me to actually manage my mana - I may as well just be using every ounce of it before I sit down because the amount of time I wait will barely be any different no matter how empty or how full the bar is anyway.
I can sit for 30 seconds to recover 60 mana or I can sit for 60 seconds to recover 240 -- which option is actually more efficient for someone's time, especially if I'm solo? I may as well nuke whatever I can as fast as possible, then I can actually sit down faster, probably saving me more time than if I tried to manage my mana for a shorter sit down between combat sessions.



Again, I'll ask: How long would you personally prefer if you think it's too fast as it is? What do you think would be the magic balance number in your opinion? Give us some perspective to have a discussion with.

[Doomed]

i sell mana and heath pots to increase them both by 50 per shot. That will let you grind as fast as you want. for a price.

[CyberDown]

Its like all the people who complain about resourcing taking too long, before having invested any time into it, not using decent tools.

Of course its bad, your a level 2 character with no wisdom on their gear.

[Tanist]

Originally posted by Sairek Ceareste:

Originally posted by Tanist:

It is a logical assumption to a complaint that a downtime of a minute (or even 2-3 mins) is somehow too long.

Anyone who has played this style of game understands the importance of down time concerning that play.

So are you suggesting they know this, but simply want the game to be opposite of that style with little to no downtime?

You are arguing over 2-3 mins.. we already had this discussion, if it is shortened even more, down time will be near non-existent and all of the factors that deal with this style of play will be invalidated... that is unless you speed up spawn times to the point the game becomes a tower defense game of constant fighting with extremely short break intervals.

How do you propose to respect that concept of game play while reducing the down time to the levels you want?

I don't know why you're being so aggressive once again, but if you actually read either of my posts, you would have already seen my suggestion instead of throwing out some argument I said in another different thread.

I'm not. I keep focusing on the discussion, you keep making this about me, using accusatory words, instructing behavior, and acting offended.

Please focus on the discussion and stop making this personal.

Originally posted by Sairek Ceareste:

Making it so the last 25% of your resting doesn't restore 75% of your resources by flattening the curve doesn't even necessarily impact the total amount of resting time needed when you're out of resources; so I don't even know why you're arguing this with me in this thread either.
My complaint with resting times has always been that it gets longer the more you level up because it doesn't scale properly with you.


The way accelerated resting rates are currently set up, if it takes me nearly just as long to wait for 1/3rd of my mana bar to be full as it does to recover my entire mana bar, there's little reason for me to actually manage my mana - I may as well just be using every ounce of it before I sit down because the amount of time I wait will barely be any different no matter how empty or how full the bar is anyway.
I can sit for 30 seconds to recover 60 mana or I can sit for 60 seconds to recover 240 -- which option is actually more efficient for someone's time, especially if I'm solo? I may as well nuke whatever I can as fast as possible, then I can actually sit down faster, probably saving me more time than if I tried to manage my mana for a shorter sit down between combat sessions.

Again, I'll ask: How long would you personally prefer if you think it's too fast as it is? What do you think would be the magic balance number in your opinion? Give us some perspective to have a discussion with.

If there is tuning in terms as of the issue, I understand, but overall... med time needs to consider the balance of game play in this respect.

My main concern is overall downtime mainly.

It has been a while, so I can't exactly remember EQ release med times, but I do know they were much longer than here.

I think first you would want to factor in mob re-spawn time which tends to be around 15 mins I think which I believe was similar to EQ.

So I would think under that possibly. Maybe 5-8? More or less because you have other factors to consider as well with skills/abilities that give mana back much faster than they did in EQ, not to mention you also have potions and other consumables that provide faster return as well.

I don't have an exact number I would be set on, but it would need to be balanced in a way where with all the spells, utils, etc... there creates a constant "pressure" for time concerning this between a respawn. Not dire... but something where the player if they completely expend all their mana, they are "nearing" re-spawn if they sit and med.

Again, don't hold me to the exact number, rather the concept of what is trying to be achieved. If a group is in the middle of a dungeon and everyone has to blow everything they have to break a room, it should be fairly safe to sit it before respawn... but... if there are pathers, adds that extend the fight, etc... this should put pressure that the player is not completely ready and waiting upon next respawn (depending on how long the additional encounters took).

Do you see the type of situation I am getting at? That "need" to consider resources, manage them and be careful? That stress that would develop if the add fights begin to take too long, etc...?

I guess also you would need to consider some room for buffing as well, but I think you would want to make it where a perfect encounter with no hitches would be an easy buff and med in between fights, but... if there were complications, you would want that to be a concern... where maybe you would only throw up a couple of key ones, then catch the rest on the next cycle.

These are all kinds of things that you used to deal with in EQ groups and it created a nice layer of management and pressure in play concerning it.

This is the concept I was getting at, so though I don't have an exact number and this game is a bit different with some of its additions to play, that would be the target result to meet.

If that makes sense?