Visionary Realms Needs to Focus on Finishing, Not Expanding

[Skatedel]

VR is new to game development. They have never released a demo, let alone a full MMORPG, arguably one of the most challenging types of games to create.

That said, I don’t consider this game to have truly been in development for the full 10 years. I believe the first seven years were more about trial and error, marketing, and—frankly—some level of fishing for investment. However, since just before the "graphics overhaul," I feel like the project has finally had a more focused development path. And from what they’ve released so far, the player experience is actually decent.

But here’s my unpopular opinion: They need to stop expanding and focus on refining what they already have. Instead of chasing grandiose visions, they should polish, optimize, and fine-tune the current game. Get the Bard in, finish implementing the classes they’ve already planned, and make the game run smoothly. There's already a clear path to level 40, and while I believe the level cap is 50, they should focus on making the existing content solid before adding more.

Right now, they are developing too much, too quickly, for a team of their size. They continue introducing new, often broken mechanics into a game that already has too many issues. "Content is King" means nothing if players don’t want to engage with it due to technical problems and unfinished systems. The game has enough content to provide plenty of playtime for those interested—what it needs now is stability.

They should stop expanding, fix what’s broken, and get the game to a true release-ready state before moving forward.

[spectre.smg - han/ham]

They should just abandon the project.

[Veeshan]

I've had this opinion on other titles so I can't rightfully disagree with the sentiment itself, but I do disagree in this case.

Ultimately the exact method of development won't make too much difference; this Foundation First method is really more suited for cutting edge AAA titles with massive teams and multiple games in development at once for multiple platforms, seeking to eek out the ultimate efficiency.

In this case I disagree because I don't see this instability you're seeing. I would agree if, like many Early Access titles, folks were being disconnected and crashing left and right, enemies were frequently wandering outside the geometry, servers flickering on and off, that kind of thing.

But with the extreme level of stability we see, for an early access title, a multiplayer one anyway, looks like their early focus on robust underlying systems is paying off.

[MrMan]

The world is nowhere near big enough.. one of the thing that made EQ so awesome was how huge the world was.

They need to do both, expand & refine. Its a big job but not impossible. I will just be patient and let the team work on it. I think they are doing great job so far.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by MrMan:

The world is nowhere near big enough.. one of the thing that made EQ so awesome was how huge the world was.

Seriously? I'm a huge fan of gigantic open worlds and this game has so far been quite good in that respect. Just climbed to the top of a giant rocky outcropping in Wild's End and was able to see a huge portion of the zone. I even saw where I got lost last time. It's pretty freaking huge.

I'll be perfectly happy with the size if all they do is improve the LoD rendering and get imposters in for basic landscaping purposes.

And remember, they can always add other islands or continents!

[Dennis Evans]

I was just reflecting on this sentiment after watching Joppa in a YT short talking about new hair models. I feel there may be a disconnect with what needs to be addressed first and what is actually being worked on. Having said that, I am aware that there are different roles in the company and everyone has an area and perhaps that is just all they are showing. This leads me to want to encourage them to show actual footage of the work being done to address the major issues rather than what I would call "fluff". ( monsters and memories are doing a fantastic job of this on a game very similar but with more OG EQ graphics.)

[DaliLhama]

I agree but here is my take on what they should do , it would go a long way to get people into the game. People need to understand this type of game is old in many respects covered in an ugly skin. Trying to convince people to buy in because you want people to believe this is a "Classic MMO" is not gonna convince too many people. People are a bit more inclined to look at the game itself then to be convinced of the "Classic MMO" moniker they are trying to push that this game represents.

They need to ditch that push and actually make a game , and what do I mean by that?

Some examples.

Flesh out the starting area , Give life to those buildings.....give life to the surrounding areas. Make it make sense....I mean a field of "mobs" is lazy and uninspired. I mean it just is , no matter what the people think that is fine. It really isnt , change the camps with the chevron mobs , make a single one there like the leader of the camp and make it appear as a special mob to players. People are familiar with that from decades of MMOs. Stop trying to be "cool" you are not being cool doing this. Its not classic design , stop lying to yourself.

Flesh out a progression path for players , direct them to the 1st dungeon area. Also have quests to where they will be in the level range to do the 1st portion of it with a group. Do a bit of hand holding to get people into this style of game. If there are people who will cry over this approach , let them cry....they are gonna be fine.

Spending time expanding a game that is just "empty" only makes the current crop of players happy. If they are fans they will understand going this route of making the game approachable from the get go is for the betterment of the game.

I mean , the growth for this game has to have stagnated right now....I cannot imagine too many people are sticking it out and are probably waiting for the finished product hoping a lot of its ALPHA look will change. But when you have a small team and when you really are not selling copies to where you can double or triple your team size , you are doing something wrong. Change it , stop being so short sighted.

Also , take what you want from this post...I am not saying it will work 100%....and this is the only path forward. But do understand , MOST gamers are intelligent enough to know a bad game and its direction is being poorly managed. Also MOST gamers are not gonna leave review or post in the forums or join a discord to voice these types of opinions. They will voice it with not buying the game. They are not like us , we are people with time on our hands who like to waste it making posts like these. Not everyone is like us....understand that.

[Elara]

That's not how an alpha should work.
The goal for them is to add everything they plan to include, then fix the bugs, and finally optimize the game.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by gazeofdisaster:

Originally posted by Veeshan:

Seriously? I'm a huge fan of gigantic open worlds and this game has so far been quite good in that respect. Just climbed to the top of a giant rocky outcropping in Wild's End and was able to see a huge portion of the zone. I even saw where I got lost last time. It's pretty freaking huge.

I'll be perfectly happy with the size if all they do is improve the LoD rendering and get imposters in for basic landscaping purposes.

And remember, they can always add other islands or continents!

Did you know if you did the same for AP or avelia and try to look at the castle that it doesn't show the castle being finished? It renders an incomplete castle that looks like straight dog doo doo.

Didn't see that, no, but I have my graphics at max. And I didn't make it quite to the tower on the cliff, maybe it doesn't render properly from there. That's what I mean by LoD and imposters, it's a huge boost to the look of the game but of course it's fluff added at the end.

[Cutter]

That is how alpha works. Beta is when everything should be in and ready for testing.

[Veeshan]

Originally posted by DaliLhama:

snip.

This sounds like advocacy for turning it into modern design, where people have their hands held etc. Or are you saying just do a very low amount of that?

I will say, they already have done a low amount of that. That first dungeon you're talking about is directly by the roadside right after the first outpost after the spawn zone. Hard to be more direct than that.*

You also spawn with a note in your pocket that points you directly toward the person handing out quests to begin gathering.

And I don't think I could disagree more on the fields of mobs topic. I've always loved that, that's why Final Fantasy 11 rates so highly in my book, sure the terrain is pretty but it's really clearly just a bucket for mobs. It's one of the things that I've always liked being abstracted out in rpgs. That, and combat pacing.

What specifically are you advocating, there? Like more realistic terrain? Or larger roaming paths for mobs?

* Actually, they managed to be more direct! Sometimes the group mobs from inside the cave come out and slaughter you right on the road.

[Tyvolus]

Originally posted by Dennis Evans:

I was just reflecting on this sentiment after watching Joppa in a YT short talking about new hair models. I feel there may be a disconnect with what needs to be addressed first and what is actually being worked on. Having said that, I am aware that there are different roles in the company and everyone has an area and perhaps that is just all they are showing. This leads me to want to encourage them to show actual footage of the work being done to address the major issues rather than what I would call "fluff". ( monsters and memories are doing a fantastic job of this on a game very similar but with more OG EQ graphics.)

I am looking forward to M&M.

[Tommy Salami]

They won't finish anything and the dozen or so people will continue cope posting here about "muh early access"

[Trexid]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/3107230/discussions/0/550107357479223548/

Updates on tuning existing content came out yesterday @Skatedel

Go read my post, watch the VOD.

[DaliLhama]

Originally posted by Veeshan:

This sounds like advocacy for turning it into modern design, where people have their hands held etc. Or are you saying just do a very low amount of that?

Yup

[Napoleon Wilson]

Tommy Salami 4 hours ago 
    
They won't finish anything and the dozen or so people will continue cope posting here about "muh early access"

Why are you here? If you hate the game so much go play some other korean fake MMO. There are dozens not including Borecraft. You are not here for anybodies benefit, you don't want to see this project succeed, all you want to do is stir up ♥♥♥♥. That is just pathetic. Can we all just ignore this....."person". maybe he will just blow away and play some Korean clone and let the grown ups play this.