Madness On Wheels Rallying's Craziest Years (Rally Vids Inside)

[Axe]

Not relevant now as I posted this days ago.

"Just a heads ups if anyone who can get BBC Four TV that this prog is on in 15 or so minutes.

"In the 80's rallying is biggers than F1 but its unregulated chaos with very powerful cars ended in 1986 after a series of tragedies. Contains upsetting scenes"

Channel 9 BBC Four.

EDIT: - I'm sure it will be on the BBC iPlayer if you miss it on TV.

Please feel free to contribute any information such as video links if you can on this era"

Or even on Rallying in general.

[blazngun]

other great docs which have great historic info are.... Official history of the WRC...... Evolution of Rallying/ 50 Years sideways.......The World Rally/ Subaru Documentary (6hour long vid) and a crapload more on specific drivers/ cars can be found by searching "rally doc"....

[Axe]

Wow thanks Chris. Can't beat a crapload ;-)

It's late here in the UK but I'll get on the case tomorrow (oops later today) and see if I can find links to those vids as it would be informative for us all if we can understand the history of rally etc.

Anyone who is interested can contribute of course on the era of the Group B cars :-)

[{DDB} Ghostface and chill]

If you want to see what rally was from roots to recent, check this bad boy out. IMO the best rally documentary ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0yQgCUKU5A

[Axe]

Thanks. Will certainly watch that.

[russvox]

İlk olarak And The Ghostface Killah tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Axe tarafından gönderildi:

Wow.

Certainly sad and makes me wonder which was worse the lack of crowd control in those days or the fact the rules were relaxed especially when it's obvious the teams will expoit the regulations to gain the edge.

Seems perhaps the sport grew exponentially beyond the ability to put proper and necessary regulations in place?

It's not unusual for deaths to have to occur before someone steps in to make a noise enough to effect changes :-/

The end of an era indeed.

If you are talking about what happened in Portugal, I wouldnt call it the lack of crowd control in those days. It was really just the lack of crowd control in portugal. Also for the rules, you could instead call modern rules more restrictive (there wasnt much to exploit in Group B). The modern limits are 300hp (theoretically) 2.0L engines and 1230kg minimum weight (to discourage plastic frames) while Group B was made from Touring cars and had no weight min or hp max. Most Group B drivers felt like the accident in Portugal was actually the fault of the crowd and had nothing to do with the specs of the car. There was an official statement from Henri Toivonen the day of the accident saying exactly that (of course he died a few months later after his car erupted into flames after wrecking).

As far as "proper regulations" with Group A and modern WRC that is a different arguement all together.

It actually did have something to do with the car, the fact group B cars were allowed to be purchased privately so soon into development meant the car was driven by Joaquim Santos, a relatively inexperienced driver compared to the works drivers. The car was purchased by a wealthy Portuguese businessman/Motorsport enthusiast who actually co Drove fro him in the rally.

The car was too much for him unfortunately and well beyond his limits.

That, matched with the poor Portuguese crowd control was one of the Nails in the coffin for Group B. Then Toivenen passed, and that was it.

Shame really as the next homoligation would've been Group S. Which were still space frame but would've been restricted to 300BHP

[russvox]

İlk olarak chrisbauer123 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sir Phillis McKraken tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah definitely, it really highlighted how much it grew for its own good, crowd control and the machines power.

The power was never the problem. It was all crowd control. Some very cool and useful technology was born because the regulations were open enough to allow for creativity and innovation. The cars were not much slower after groupB was banned due to technology advancing in areas other than brute force power. Accidents still happen to this day, but are rare because of proper enforcement, and when there isnt, they simply cancel the stage.

Marku Alen stated that getting from the S4 into the Group A Integrale was like... "having the engine removed".. The step down from Group B to Group A would be like going from F1 to Formula ford today

[function9]

I don't know. I don't think it would've matter whether the cars had 1000bhp or 100bhp. The spectators in those days were packed right to the edge of the road and spilling out into it sometimes. Portugal was by far the worst, but it wasn't the only event that lacked proper crowd control. People have still died since Group B was gone and unfortunately people will probably still die in the future.

It's also funny how the new regulations and restrictions following Group B's ban had little, if anything to do with the real issue, crowd control. You can still see it in videos from the late 80's and into the 90's, people were still everywhere. That's ok though, cause the former F1 drivers and fanboys that populated the FIA got their way. If it keeps up, soon WRC will be ran with R2 class cars with electric motors. Meanwhile, they're talking about (or already decided) to have F1 with 1000+ hp.

[blazngun]

Zakalwe, thanks for posting that. Thought I had seen all the rally docs YouTube has to offer!!!

[Axe]

İlk olarak Zakalwe tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Axe tarafından gönderildi:

Just a heads ups if anyone who can get BBC Four TV that this prog is on in 15 or so minutes.

"In the 80's rallying is biggers than F1 but its unregulated chaos with very powerful cars ended in 1986 after a series of tragedies. Contains upsetting scenes"

Channel 9 BBC Four.

EDIT: - I'm sure it will be on the BBC iPlayer if you miss it on TV.

Please feel free to contribute any information such as video links if you can on this era.

Probably the best rally documentary ever...that and Madness in the Desert: Paris to Dakar. Nutters. Ever seen Charlie Boorman's attempt? Well worth the watch:

https://youtu.be/Q4g3BauJmOw?list=PL2F8223EC4729DF5E

Watched them way back but I have downloaded them now to watch at my leisure again - Thanks.

[TheGreatCicero]

The dakar series is insane. Holy crap, but the first stage looked like a proper 4 wheeler rally stage! Looked gorgeous, lot'a water and wet sand!

I have a question ,why is it called a Rally ? Shouldn't it be called Raid ? I mean, It's not a Rally, no Co-pilot, et.al. ?

Back in Europe, when I was young, they were refering to it "Raid Paris Dakar" not Rally?

[@lf]

İlk olarak Axe tarafından gönderildi:

'Too Fast to Race'

https://vimeo.com/27311200

'Still Too Fast to Race'

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xni7c5_still-too-fast-to-race-group-b-rally-cars_auto

:-)

Great documentaries from Group B era. Thanks for posting the links, Axe.
I'll make sure to take a look to the others mentioned in this thread.

[Axe]

If you want to download them for later viewing Alf - you can get this free application called 'Freemake Video Downloader' which can be found here for the latest version:

http://www.freemake.com/free_video_downloader/

Keep updating for the latest version as Youtube continue to change which renders versions null.

[sound-fx]

What a fantastic thread, thanks for all the links. I can't keep up.

[Axe]

İlk olarak sound-fx tarafından gönderildi:

What a fantastic thread, thanks for all the links. I can't keep up.

That's why I have downloaded them for later viewing - and although I have been occasionally watching (not following) rally since the '80s I am now slightly more informed and as a result am understanding the evolution of the sport.

It's the same path I have taken regarding sex. First you watch a lot and then over time you get to vaguelly understanding it... with the intent of perhaps mastering it... By the time you think you have, you realise you are past competing...

Personaly I find that hard.