Do rally cars uses ABS?

[Mangostain]

Real rally cars from the game use ABS system? I want the real settings option in preference, not most challenging preferences... thanks

[shoobie]

In the modern racing world, yes, most race cars in any motorsport (GT3, LMP, Rolex, etc) have ABS and even traction control in some cases. But in rally, I believe only ABS is used. TC wouldn't make any sense because you actually need wheelspin for grip on gravel and ice/snow. That's why I leave ABS on 3, not too much, but it's there nonetheless. :D

[Mangostain]

Thanks Tezza, valuable info... I read somehwere else that WRC class cars are the only rally cars w ABS assists... I dont know if this true

[Ghost]

Well if ABS is there on rally cars then why is it considered a penalized assist in the game?

[Dogtanian]

Because oldschool ftw. I've driven a Fiesta in this game, after driving the Impreza for many stages and I can tell you I had no fun driving the Fiesta. It's way too smooth and stable. No wonder WRC is so dead.

[Solo]

Since 2011 WRC has banned ABS, before then they had every assist imaginable including traction control.

[Ghost]

OK let me rephrase, if ABS is used in Rallies in real life why penalize it as an assist in the the game? Al why would you not have fun with the Fiesta if you can just turn the ABS off in your assists?

[Sekiguchi]

I have all assists off and still think the Fiesta is boring compared to the older cars.

[paatrik]

"Any electronic driving aid system is prohibited (ABS / ASR /
EPS…).
Only the homologated electronic control unit (ECU) and
actuators may be used." -Article 255A (2015) - Specific Regulations for WRC - published on 19.12.2014

Even with the ABS off the cars' braking power is incredible in this game.

[Mangostain]

@Jorma... When that rule started? This applied to classics cars? (pre-2010)

[Mangostain]

I found a extract that can partial answer my question:

"...By the way: standard driver assistance functions such as ABS (anti-lock braking system) and ESP (Electronic Stability Program) present in every modern car are not built into World Rally cars. Surely they need them, particularly on ice and snow, you might think? No, of course not! Rally drivers are the best drivers in the world and they can react much more quickly and precisely in emergencies than any electronic system can. Humans instead of machines – who said the world made sense?..."

Source: https://www.rallytheworld.com/ru/polo-r-wrc-tech-talk-4-wins

I would assume that old rally cars were without ABS at the moment....

[Dogtanian]

Originally posted by GhostOrdos:

OK let me rephrase, if ABS is used in Rallies in real life why penalize it as an assist in the the game? Al why would you not have fun with the Fiesta if you can just turn the ABS off in your assists?

I've always played with everything off with forced camera, except HUD and so far the 2010s cars are way too smooth and stable. That's like that in real life as well, it's not a game problem, it's WRC that changed.

I'm an oldschooler, with likes for the raw cars from 99 - 03 what you want :P

[M4rt1n93]

Originally posted by GhostOrdos:

OK let me rephrase, if ABS is used in Rallies in real life why penalize it as an assist in the the game? Al why would you not have fun with the Fiesta if you can just turn the ABS off in your assists?

Because that is how sim players are... they think sim = NO assists no matter what. But that is not how it is, sim is ofc realistic and all, nad you drive that and that car as its in real life. Like if you drive a GT3 car in a sim then that car should have TC, ABS etc since it have that IRL. But ofc should also have possibility to turn it off if you want it. So many people say ''you are not a hardcore sim racer before you take of all the assits!'' and in my opinion, that is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...

I mean ofc if you want to drive with no assits then do it, but you can't say people are not real hardcore and all just because they drive the REAL car with the assits that car have IRL...

[Montago]

ABS only makes sense for emergency braking or really late breaking ... the problem with ABS is that it makes it harder if not impossible to make scandinavian flick.

So if you want to drive clean without powersliding, then use ABS and TC.

if you want to powerslide in your GroupB 4WD, then deactivate ABS and TC :D

[Alby]

I checked the official FIA reglementations:

Engine electronic control system
Any electronic driving aid system is prohibited (ABS / ASR /
EPS…).
Only the homologated electronic control unit (ECU) and
actuators may be used.
The homologated ECU and engine control software must be
used. They must be fitted with an engine rev. limiter,
maximum engine revs being limited to 8500 rpm.

But to be honest, I don't care about that. I drive with ABS 4, TC and Stability off.

[Simon said EAT DUST PLAYER_1 !]

Originally posted by M4rt1n93:

Originally posted by GhostOrdos:

OK let me rephrase, if ABS is used in Rallies in real life why penalize it as an assist in the the game? Al why would you not have fun with the Fiesta if you can just turn the ABS off in your assists?

Because that is how sim players are... they think sim = NO assists no matter what. But that is not how it is, sim is ofc realistic and all, nad you drive that and that car as its in real life.

You are right, of course. Yet you have to realize the second side of the coin, as well:

RACE-abs is not like your typical road-side abs which in turn varies by vintage, make and model -- and nowadays even in-car settings.

There are sooooo many variables at play here, it would be a monsterous task to design them all into a "simple game". And then there is the fun-factor: People that DO real life racing often can be overheard arguing that racing was more fun with less complicated machinery. And then there even are experts that will argue: modern-day driving aids lead to less-sure-footed drivers AND can be detremental in certain racing situations, increasing severity of incidents, possibly even causing more fatal instances of specific incidents than they do prevent the more known kind of errors (that they actually were designed for) in the first place.

Difficult topic. Let alone that most race-teams will keep their mouths shut when asking them about the specifics of the "fine-tuning" that went into the systems actually in use on one of their cars. Knowledge that would be needed to recreate the experience faithfully - yet would be better kept secret, since it might tell the competition what is going on far too well.

Like if you drive a GT3 car in a sim then that car should have TC, ABS etc since it have that IRL. But ofc should also have possibility to turn it off if you want it. So many people say ''you are not a hardcore sim racer before you take of all the assits!'' and in my opinion, that is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥...

And yes you are right in principle. Yet it is virtually impossible at this moment in history to achieve realistic driving aids as to 100% replicate the specific behaviour of tangible, existing race-cars. As I have tried to make clear above.

I mean ofc if you want to drive with no assits then do it, but you can't say people are not real hardcore and all just because they drive the REAL car with the assits that car have IRL...

I think this the answer: just do not penalize people to an overly harsh degree for their choice in realistic-ish use of driver-aids. Of course: on the loose stuff - I would bet that most irl-drivers actually prefer no assists to dealing with control-restrictions.

Then again: I think we should draw a line somewhere: Historic rally cars did not have any assists apart from maybe power steering. Computing power and theoretical knowledge simply did not exist prior to the 2000s as in to make such inventions actually work well in a racing situation. And computerized assists are expensive to deploy and only really managable by those in the know and with the right set of skills and equimpment. So actually most amateur-ish rallying is still done without them. If we embrace this reality then I'd say for rally-racing:

keep it simple. I want realistic physics and FFB much more than over-blown assists.

And realistically: noone making a game has the stamina(time & money) and interest great enough to "model" those kinds of things truthfully. So better implement a "generic solution" for those that need them. And maybe just tell your players what is what -- and actually tell them that they can't get a hyper-computerized ride when you can't make one.