Real rally car steering wheel degrees?

[Roscoe]

What degrees do rally cars run at coz im seeing all these wheel setups with 270 and i think thats wrong and basically cheating. i thought open wheelers run at 270?

[incriminated]

Yeah, sure I must admit that 400° is more precise than 180° or 240° or even 360°.
But if you are ALREADY used to 540° or even higher... there is no advantage picking a lower one.

540° is not much... it is only 1 and a half overall, so 3/4 in each direction and i see no reason to decrease my precision furthermore using 400°.

With 540° using both hands i can go up to half the hole angle in each direction. The few moments of hairpins more would be desireable , I take of a hand and can do the rest with the other...without really "turning a crank".

With 400° i still had to put the one hand off... but only to steer a little more degree. With 540° i can go as much as the second hand goes down, precisely knowing how much angle is left.

[flagg]

I think you have to use the real degree of the car we're driving.
270 Putting a rally car is not authentic.
You have to take hands on the wheel.

[incriminated]

Ya like the 1960's class. Wasn't the Lancia having 1080 and no servo? :)

Truly to be absolutely realistic game should take use of the hole wheel according to what the car actually "features".

But this could only make sense in a kind of difficulty-level "armageddon", because anytime you switch the car, you need to learn to drive rally from the start.... so often until you advance skill in faster adopting... then you are really a pro :D :D

[incriminated]

BTW the video demostrates very good that the most of what you do is counterstear to high angle forces from the track and even not-sharp corners require fast and precice angle-adjustments. While I agree, that he do steer no more than about 400°.... this must not mean that this represents max angle for the car-setup. Even at hairpins basically what you do is apply a twitchy high angle at all and use your eBrake, to get into drift... and then re-allign the car with a lower precise angle. I think its 540° still.

Taking use of a car-wheels fullest angle is only useful in very slow occasional situation...like - for you woman out there - getting into a parking lot! :D :D

But you won't say parking or driving a car would be easier with twitchy F1-setup, so I see were aligned :D

We want high precision on low to medium angles...without using any thing like software-linearity.
So i cannot recommend anything lower than 360°
And I do not recommend using in-game wheel-linearity.


PS: To refer to the starting topic.... i dont think rally uses higher angles than just 270° for the reason to make it harder on themselves. Low angle is not easier on rally, in fact you thinking 270° is cheating in fact is a handicap and you just make driving rally harder to yourself. Sry. :D

[Oyster]

Yeah, cheating, right.

I wonder if using a 144hz monitor or a third-party handbrake lever is cheating too.

[incriminated]

Oh and what about triple monitoring.. dare you cheaters! xD

Dont worry, some people just seem to have moved from CSS. " Awww, you can aim and I cannot: YOU CHEATER!" xD

[Simon said EAT DUST PLAYER_1 !]

well: as "incriminated" correctly laid out: going too low on wheel-angle would stop being beneficial in real life after a certain point. Think about it. There is a reason why even the top-level cars have "stopped" at shortening the angle at about 540 degrees.

What do we - as low-level (in terms of equipment) simracers - never experience while "driving" at our desks and/or sitting in our most-simple rigs? I would say it is the inertia of our own bodies (arms and legs included) getting thrown around by the ride - only harnessed by hopefully tightly-gripping seats and properly worn seat-belts and straps).

We only get a little bit of recreated forces through our ffb-wheels (should we actually use those rather than the lower-cost alternative handheld controllers). In real life, going too tight on the steering-ratio would throw off our precision in directional control big-time, once we hit so much as a bit of a rougher surface and/or even the tiniest traces of waves or potholes. Especially when our wheels hit these obstacles while not being pointed at them dead-straight.
Where we "desk-racers" only have to cope with the agitiation of the ffb-implementation, real-life drivers have to keep the inertia of their own hands, arms, legs and feet in check that adds up on top of the feedback coming through the steering column.

So once you take a rougher sequence of "hits" while driving at speed, your control of the car will inevitably suffer greater the more "direct" your steering-ratio measures out. Hence off-road cars, big trucks and other heavy machinery tend to utilize much "slacker" DOG-windows for their steering systems, designed not to overpower the driver's inputs and deliberately optimized for high loads and slow-speed handling.

Despite all that, there is a general rule of thumb in (track-) racing:
When you are doing it right, your hands do not ever have to leave their 3-to-9 ('o clock) grip on the steering-wheel.

As always, that is to be understood as the basic idea. You should not ever need to cross-over your hands and over-rotate the steering at speed, while staying on "the proper racing-line". On most circuits: a maximum turn-in angle of about 90° at the steering-wheel should suffice for each and every corner, really.
So in theory: should you ever need more: "You're doing it wrong".

Of course: rally is slightly different from the norm. So we do not see the formula-kind of steering-ratios that afair max out at ~480° of steering-wheel window. In rally we have to deal with the occasional acute turn where the real-world road barely offers enough space to actually fit the width of the one car that we try to steer through. Hence we rally-folks do want to know our steering-technique by heart and be capable of reaching beyond those proverbial 90 degrees either side of center in an efficient and competent manner.

[Rookie-31st]

There is no in-game rule for degrees. RSRBR was forcing players to use manual gears when first released (not sure if it was changed later). No one could use automatic gears. So, unless the game has coded limitation forcing people to use steering wheel with certain degree, and refuses to start the race with keyboard/gamepad or cheap steering wheel not supporting specified degree, using various controllers with various settings is not cheating.

[flagg]

Use some degree or other degree is not cheating. It's a game. I play better with 720 than 270º because I'm used to driving real cars with 1080 °, 900 ° and 720 °
(But you have to move your hands on the wheel. The best is 540 °).

[incriminated]

BTW.... the new wheel system does in fact carries different angle for different cars, but it is not working when setup is wrong. Here is what you need to do according to this CM guide.

http://blog.codemasters.com/dirt/06/dirt-rally-force-feedback-update/

To you we’re recommending that you leave your set up as it is for now, you shouldn’t need to change anything but if you were previously running 270 degrees of rotation on your wheel you may find it really snappy and 540 may suit you better.

I recommend everyone reading it completely to understand what the wheel-system is capable of now and how to set it up correctly!

In short to make it function to it's full SIM-potential:

First in device/drivers-settings:

x)

set your wheel to the maximum degrees of rotation available in your devices settings.

x)

Set your device’s dampening to 100%

x)

set your driver centring springs to off or 0% <--AWW THIS IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW

If you not set it to 0% then driver AND game try both to activate the motors according to your rotation!!! This high likely causes clipping and have strange effects of felt kinda little jumpy wheel-turning-resistance depending on the car!!

Of cause - although it is not mentioned in the guide - you need to tick.

[x] Allow game to change device settings.

In game now fully calibrate the device... there is in-game option for that. It is important to make the game detect the full rotation-capacity.

Basically your done with the wheel settings.

For the advanced FFB to avoid clipping, using the new wheel system enabled like told above tune it this way:

Self Aligning Torque: 100 (107% max)
– scales the strength of the steering forces

Wheel Friction: 60%
– scales the static friction of the wheel.

Tyre Friction: 70%
– scales the dynamic friction of the tyre (this is friction when the tyre is in motion).

Suspension: 80%
– scales the information from the road’s surface via the suspension. The harder the impact to the suspension the greater the force felt.

Tyre Slip: 90%
– scales the vibration felt when the rear wheels slip (front wheels are covered by the steering forces).

Collision: 100%
– scales the strength of impacts to the rigid body

SoftLock: 50% (or for full SIM up to 100%)
50% is sweet-spotting... 100% is turning the crank.

Now you have any car at the specified car-wheels real angle plus you have almost eliminated chance of FFB-clipping plus different force-strength for different effect.

Chances that effects add up and exceed 150% overall force are quite low and may only happen during a collision or slippy rear-tyres...only cases in which IMHO FFB-clipping is ok.

From this point out you could fine tune the FFB.

[incriminated]

The coolest thing about the new system is that you can simply change the soft-loc, lets say 50%....


what would mean:

1080° cars = 540°
FIAT 131 Abarth

900° cars = 450°
Mini Cooper S
Lancia Fulvia HF
Ford Escort Mk II
Lancia Stratos
Peugeot 205 T16 Evo 2
Lancia Delta S4
MG Metro 6R4
Peugeot 205 T16 Pikes Peak

720° cars = 360°
Audi Sport Quattro Rallye
Ford RS200
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500
BMW E30 M3 Evo Rally
Lancia Delta HF Integrale
Ford Escort RS Cosworth
Subaru Impreza 1995
Audi Sport Quattro S1 Pikes Peak
Peugeot 405 T16 Pikes Peak

540° cars = 270°
Ford Fiesta RS Rally Car
Mini Countryman Rally Edition

This way you are always in the sweet spot 270° - 540° (mostly between 360° and 450° what is even more sweeter spot) and still expieriencing the full variety of slightly different angled cars.... from twitchy to cranky

I love this setup... no matter it is difficult.

[Marius]

1080 or 900 degrees + Softlock on. That's how the game is meant to be played, also the most authentic!

[jack]

This has degrees of rotation for all of the cars in the game:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=462311586

[J.B.H. McCrash (Pike107)]

I know its a bit much to ask, but I would like to be able to tick a box for steering degrees in the player rankings. Like a box for "realistic degrees" so you can compare with those players. I find that a lot more interesting than comparing to players with other settings than realistic settings.

And no I'm not saying you are not allowed to play it with keyboard, gamepad or unrealistic degrees. I dont care aslong as I can compare to players who do.

[Marius]

Pike107 a écrit :

I know its a bit much to ask, but I would like to be able to tick a box for steering degrees in the player rankings. Like a box for "realistic degrees" so you can compare with those players. I find that a lot more interesting than comparing to players with other settings than realistic settings.

And no I'm not saying you are not allowed to play it with keyboard, gamepad or unrealistic degrees. I dont care aslong as I can compare to players who do.

yeha here too. also with transmission. It's a feature asked by millions. A filtered leaderboards ingame.