Table of oranzations

[The Hunky Dorry Life Of Mr.Kris!]

how do you use? can i use in an staranrd random game or do i have to enable in the editior?

[Concerned West Virginia Resident]

You need to play the "new dawn" mode to use the TOEs.

[ozkat (VegasOZ)]

This TOE thing has put this game back on my play list. I hated the regular style, it was way tooo tedious to have to build each division by hand. Or at least that is how I was trying to do it. This design your own is a game saver for me and I'm now playing this again after having uninstalled it. Thanks for the upgrade to the design.

[Major.Pain]

The TOE and auto reinforce are the difference between starting a game and actually finnishing a game for me. They are my most hoped for features for the game and i can now play around and have the war without the bore.
I would like Vic to add the "spacebar" hotkey which we can already use to activate the on screen "tick" icon currently to also be able to "confirm" other highlighted UI buttons to further cut down on those mouse clicks.

[Esc-Artist]

Yeah the UI and the amount of mouse clicks are a bit of a downer in an otherwise great game.

[BattleCrom]

Originally posted by Major.Pain:

The TOE and auto reinforce are the difference between starting a game and actually finnishing a game for me. They are my most hoped for features for the game and i can now play around and have the war without the bore.
I would like Vic to add the "spacebar" hotkey which we can already use to activate the on screen "tick" icon currently to also be able to "confirm" other highlighted UI buttons to further cut down on those mouse clicks.

Agreed. I love playing a game game on a large map with several AI's but the micro got so bad in the late game I rarely finished. TOE is a godsend.

[beltsman]

I stopped using TOE because units seem to jam up at HQs and not get sent out. Do HQs need trains/trucks/horses to move them?

[Crazed Possum]

Originally posted by Vince McMahon:

I stopped using TOE because units seem to jam up at HQs and not get sent out. Do HQs need trains/trucks/horses to move them?

I would say definately so. Trains and trucks for sure.

[Major.Pain]

Originally posted by Vince McMahon:

I stopped using TOE because units seem to jam up at HQs and not get sent out. Do HQs need trains/trucks/horses to move them?

They dont "need" trains and trucks to move them from your HQ's to your divisions, they will all move under there own "movement". However, having trucks and trains in your HQ's massively speeds up this process.

A simple way of stopping your TOE getting bogged down is just focus your trucks and trains onto the busy fronts.

So the HQ's which are getting jammed up as you say try adding your trains and trucks to it and it will sort itself out faster.

[BattleCrom]

Here's a (TOE) tutorial I just posted to youtube. A short 14 minute video that cover all the features rules and benifits to using theTOE system.
https://youtu.be/XrRFJUgjdU0

[wildlifeluvr]

The TOE makes the game fun and playable. It takes time to learn some tips on how to maximize is its use. Once you have an organizational structure you, you export the TOE and then every new game you start, you import the TOE.

Some examples: I have three basic infantry units I call platoon, company, battalion with the batallion having 60 stack point total. I have support units, e.g., various anti-tank guns, bazookas, assault etc. that total 40 stack points so that means I can put one batallion and a support unit to equal the max 100 stack points on a hex. I make sure that if I have a unit that totals 40 stack points, I have other units that total 20, e.g., in other words, I make it easy to combine so that I can get 100 on a hex.

The TOE itself is not designed well or is limited by the engine. When you start building the TOE, you can't raise or lower an entry already made to organize it. Each unit is built in chronological order. So, if you come up with some great infantry units you like, then an artillery unit, then some air units, then back to some assault infantry then a tank, then some different type of infantry, you end up with a mess.

My solution was to make a heading such as:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infantry (defense)

New unit
New unit
New unit
""" """ etc for about 15 entries

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault (offensive infantry)
New unit
New unit
""" """ etc for about another 10 or so

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Artillery
New unit
New unit
""" "" etc

The reason here is I can go and build a unit then go to another type of unit category and build it, such as armor, then come back and build an infantry, etc. When all is finished, I am left with a structure that groups the units into armor, artillery, assualt, infantry, anti-tank, SMG etc., making it far easier to quickly find a category then the specific unit.

Hopefully, at some point, the game designers will make the TOE moe user friendly to make the "organization" of the Table of Organization easy to use. Until then, you need to figure out the cumbersome limitations and come up with your own solutions to make it as user friendly as you can.

Let's be clear ... the TOE makes the game awesome. You can create a unit, then apply the HQ then the apply the TOE and the unit builds itself. If you need that unit like right now, you still aplly the TOE but manually build it so you have it that turn. Reinforcements are automatically sent to the unit when in a TOE so that if it gets depleted in combat, it will eventually rebuild itself with fresh troops (you may want to consider withdrawing a very depleted unit to the rear before it gets destroyed). The time you spend playing instead of administering clicks and wasted time is enormous. There shoudl be no reason to play any game other than "New Dawn".

Somebody, preferably the game designer, really ought to make a manual on maximizing the TOE along with some step-by-steps to show how to build some units. It is not hard but like we see so often in games, it would be nice to have a good manual to show new players the basics.

I recommend that players only play with the "New Dawn" and really learn how to use the TOE. One final thing on a different subject .... I also recommend that you learn some basic editing so that you can maybe give yourself an extra city or two, an extra couple RAW and OIL facilities, maybe add some terrain changes and tweak the game so that it maximizes the fun. If the game is too hard, tweak it to make it easier and if too easy, make it more challenging. You need to learn some basic editing to do that, and again, for some odd reason, there is no manual. It is trial and error until you figure out how to edit.

[beltsman]

With a TOE, I still have to control production, correct? If my units need 100 riflemen then I need to build 100 riflemen - they won't build themselves, correct?

And if I have SHQ and HQ1, and HQ1 is where I need the reinforcements, does it make more sense (faster) to send my production directly to HQ1 rather than SHQ?

[BattleCrom]

This game and the game manual had been out for years before the developer "Victor Reijkersz" added in the TOE feature. I'm just glad that the developer actually still cares about this game enough to add new features and fix bugs. He has developed 4 new games since ATG released and has a 5th one under development now. Its a rare thing to have a developer care that much about his older work when he's moved on to a new project.
Although TOE may not be in the game manual the developer did write this article about it. http://www.vrdesigns.nl/atwiki/doku.php?id=tables_of_organisation_and_equipment

Originally posted by wildlifeluvr:

The TOE makes the game fun and playable. It takes time to learn some tips on how to maximize is its use. Once you have an organizational structure you, you export the TOE and then every new game you start, you import the TOE.

Some examples: I have three basic infantry units I call platoon, company, battalion with the batallion having 60 stack point total. I have support units, e.g., various anti-tank guns, bazookas, assault etc. that total 40 stack points so that means I can put one batallion and a support unit to equal the max 100 stack points on a hex. I make sure that if I have a unit that totals 40 stack points, I have other units that total 20, e.g., in other words, I make it easy to combine so that I can get 100 on a hex.

The TOE itself is not designed well or is limited by the engine. When you start building the TOE, you can't raise or lower an entry already made to organize it. Each unit is built in chronological order. So, if you come up with some great infantry units you like, then an artillery unit, then some air units, then back to some assault infantry then a tank, then some different type of infantry, you end up with a mess.

My solution was to make a heading such as:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infantry (defense)

New unit
New unit
New unit
""" """ etc for about 15 entries

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assault (offensive infantry)
New unit
New unit
""" """ etc for about another 10 or so

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Artillery
New unit
New unit
""" "" etc

The reason here is I can go and build a unit then go to another type of unit category and build it, such as armor, then come back and build an infantry, etc. When all is finished, I am left with a structure that groups the units into armor, artillery, assualt, infantry, anti-tank, SMG etc., making it far easier to quickly find a category then the specific unit.

Hopefully, at some point, the game designers will make the TOE moe user friendly to make the "organization" of the Table of Organization easy to use. Until then, you need to figure out the cumbersome limitations and come up with your own solutions to make it as user friendly as you can.

Let's be clear ... the TOE makes the game awesome. You can create a unit, then apply the HQ then the apply the TOE and the unit builds itself. If you need that unit like right now, you still aplly the TOE but manually build it so you have it that turn. Reinforcements are automatically sent to the unit when in a TOE so that if it gets depleted in combat, it will eventually rebuild itself with fresh troops (you may want to consider withdrawing a very depleted unit to the rear before it gets destroyed). The time you spend playing instead of administering clicks and wasted time is enormous. There shoudl be no reason to play any game other than "New Dawn".

Somebody, preferably the game designer, really ought to make a manual on maximizing the TOE along with some step-by-steps to show how to build some units. It is not hard but like we see so often in games, it would be nice to have a good manual to show new players the basics.

I recommend that players only play with the "New Dawn" and really learn how to use the TOE. One final thing on a different subject .... I also recommend that you learn some basic editing so that you can maybe give yourself an extra city or two, an extra couple RAW and OIL facilities, maybe add some terrain changes and tweak the game so that it maximizes the fun. If the game is too hard, tweak it to make it easier and if too easy, make it more challenging. You need to learn some basic editing to do that, and again, for some odd reason, there is no manual. It is trial and error until you figure out how to edit.

[BattleCrom]

Originally posted by Vince McMahon:

With a TOE, I still have to control production, correct? If my units need 100 riflemen then I need to build 100 riflemen - they won't build themselves, correct?

And if I have SHQ and HQ1, and HQ1 is where I need the reinforcements, does it make more sense (faster) to send my production directly to HQ1 rather than SHQ?

Yes you still have to produce them in a city or factory. TOE will only move forces around that you have already created.
Yes you can definitely streamline the process and help TOE out by sending the units produced in facories/cities directly to the HQ in need.

[wildlifeluvr]

Originally posted by Vince McMahon:

With a TOE, I still have to control production, correct? If my units need 100 riflemen then I need to build 100 riflemen - they won't build themselves, correct?

And if I have SHQ and HQ1, and HQ1 is where I need the reinforcements, does it make more sense (faster) to send my production directly to HQ1 rather than SHQ?

Yes, in addition to what Roberts3141 stated, production will go to a HQ unit--you get to choose what HQ. It follows a hierarchy. A unit you create and then apply a TOE model to it will seek to draw the subunits from its parent HQ. If its parent HQ does not have the subunits, then the grandparent HQ send the subuits to the parent HQ then finally down to the unit you created, etc.

Part of creating TOE models is crating various types of HQ models, such as Supreme HQ, Corp level HQ, General, Colonel, etc. or however you want to structure your army.

Due to lack of documentation, I dove in and screwed around with it until I figured out the basics then searched through the Internet, VR website and other sites associated with Matric Games until I found links that helped me learn bits and pieces. Eventually, some industrious person willput together a good manual because it does not look like the game designer will.

[wildlifeluvr]

To Roberts3141 ... whart are some other games that this designer has produced? What games do you consider better than ATG?

I like the basic idea behind ATG, the TOE and the overall game but I am certain there are better games out there for those that say, "if you like ATG, you will LOVE this game". Give me some game ideas?