The game is fun, but progression and rng is bad.

[Seerorin]

Played a few hours, got through first boss. For a demo it's alright, but too crunchy. There are a lot of random systems over wich you have no control, and even the grind is behind a wall, you loose your meta currency every run. I understand you want the game to progress slowly, but this is just simply a game were rng wins. Meta progression is essential, but with loosing currency you again just up against rng not grind. Think it through with loosing meta currency.
Also building unlocks wich gives you options are nice, but hidden and you can't see when/why they happen, and what they give you. Like goblin store is said to be a cheap random buy chance/wawe+a relic at start. The starting relic is totally random(wich is implied, but not stated), and the buy chance is not/wawe but every 5.
Also most relics are pretty weak.
Cards are also unbalanced and a lot of them is out of touch with the tower you use it on. Like splitting the runestone tower, or the extra attackspeed around it(especially since it's uselessly low).

[Nando | Stunforge]

Originally posted by Seerorin:

Played a few hours, got through first boss. For a demo it's alright, but too crunchy. There are a lot of random systems over wich you have no control, and even the grind is behind a wall, you loose your meta currency every run. I understand you want the game to progress slowly, but this is just simply a game were rng wins. Meta progression is essential, but with loosing currency you again just up against rng not grind. Think it through with loosing meta currency.
Also building unlocks wich gives you options are nice, but hidden and you can't see when/why they happen, and what they give you. Like goblin store is said to be a cheap random buy chance/wawe+a relic at start. The starting relic is totally random(wich is implied, but not stated), and the buy chance is not/wawe but every 5.
Also most relics are pretty weak.
Cards are also unbalanced and a lot of them is out of touch with the tower you use it on. Like splitting the runestone tower, or the extra attackspeed around it(especially since it's uselessly low).

Hi and thanks for the detailed feedback!

Yes, the 1st boss is very tough - but that's how it should be. Especially in the demo we only have 20 waves and they still have to be challenging. What do you mean by losing “Meta Currency”? You only lose Honor when you spend it. Or have you encountered a bug?

Yes, the explanation of why you unlock the 3 new buildings is still missing, good point.

All banners have their strengths and their individual setup, where they can work well. Both of the banners you mentioned were successfully used by the Rank1 player, for example. It always depends. And that's where the RNG comes in: RNG is a good thing, but it can also be annoying. It can be annoying if you want to have the perfect run as you imagine it. But RNG sometimes opens your eyes to other builds, to other possibilities, presents you with other challenges and leads organically to exploration. Since the last patch, the map is also less luck-dependent and for the full version, additional RNG controllers such as “Banishs” etc. have been added. But also many more possibilities :)

I hope you had fun so far.

[HingleMcCringleberry]

I realize that you had to adjust progression for this demo but the main problem I had after a couple of runs was the fact that you have little to no variety when starting a new run.

You buy the mill, buy worker nr4 and probably the tavern (trade harbor is an option but the tavern bonus is stronger in the beginning imo) and then decide on gold upgrades, but in the end, there is not much choice.

Something like chosing between 3 common relics instead of one random relic would be nice, just to give players a bit more choice during the first 5 rounds of a new run. StS is really good ad giving some fun choices at the start of each new run.

[Nando | Stunforge]

Originally posted by HingleMcCringleberry:

I realize that you had to adjust progression for this demo but the main problem I had after a couple of runs was the fact that you have little to no variety when starting a new run.

You buy the mill, buy worker nr4 and probably the tavern (trade harbor is an option but the tavern bonus is stronger in the beginning imo) and then decide on gold upgrades, but in the end, there is not much choice.

Something like chosing between 3 common relics instead of one random relic would be nice, just to give players a bit more choice during the first 5 rounds of a new run. StS is really good ad giving some fun choices at the start of each new run.

Exactly what is coming in the next patch - haha ! :-)

Hope you will like it.

[Seerorin]

Originally posted by Nando | Stunforge:

Originally posted by Seerorin:

Played a few hours, got through first boss. For a demo it's alright, but too crunchy. There are a lot of random systems over wich you have no control, and even the grind is behind a wall, you loose your meta currency every run. I understand you want the game to progress slowly, but this is just simply a game were rng wins. Meta progression is essential, but with loosing currency you again just up against rng not grind. Think it through with loosing meta currency.
Also building unlocks wich gives you options are nice, but hidden and you can't see when/why they happen, and what they give you. Like goblin store is said to be a cheap random buy chance/wawe+a relic at start. The starting relic is totally random(wich is implied, but not stated), and the buy chance is not/wawe but every 5.
Also most relics are pretty weak.
Cards are also unbalanced and a lot of them is out of touch with the tower you use it on. Like splitting the runestone tower, or the extra attackspeed around it(especially since it's uselessly low).

Hi and thanks for the detailed feedback!

Yes, the 1st boss is very tough - but that's how it should be. Especially in the demo we only have 20 waves and they still have to be challenging. What do you mean by losing “Meta Currency”? You only lose Honor when you spend it. Or have you encountered a bug?

Yes, the explanation of why you unlock the 3 new buildings is still missing, good point.

All banners have their strengths and their individual setup, where they can work well. Both of the banners you mentioned were successfully used by the Rank1 player, for example. It always depends. And that's where the RNG comes in: RNG is a good thing, but it can also be annoying. It can be annoying if you want to have the perfect run as you imagine it. But RNG sometimes opens your eyes to other builds, to other possibilities, presents you with other challenges and leads organically to exploration. Since the last patch, the map is also less luck-dependent and for the full version, additional RNG controllers such as “Banishs” etc. have been added. But also many more possibilities :)

I hope you had fun so far.

The problem is not me wanting a perfect run, but rng having an insanely high impact on your chances at start. Like getting a hero with extra wood. There is a guy who says he already reaching lvl 20 with a consistent strategy, without econ. In games like this econ should be something just get over with, so later in the game you can focus on how to deal with waves. My concern is the amount of busywork with econ, and not much return on investment. Even when you purely push economy you don't get noticable returns on investment by wawe 10. If you scatter your investments, then you won't get much towers either. Tried the build tall style it's not working well, because econ isn't helping much. Tried the scatter aproach it's working, but looked into what the guy wrote, it can work. But it's singularly boring over optimization. That could be good if you wan't the game to be extremely hard. Yeah that's nice for some people. BUt then the game loose the thing what most rougelites thrive in. Fun short runs, where you learn mistakes, and can experiment. Here you are set up into a singular path. Maybe just me not seeing the other upgrades avaliable and not having said bonuses makes scaling worse.

Also the loose of meta currency per run, is a little disappointing. Also not encourages experimentation. If you fail, you just lost everything. Works in some games, but when you have meta progression, then it feels bad to loose all your currency every run.

[Nando | Stunforge]

Originally posted by Seerorin:

Originally posted by Nando | Stunforge:

Hi and thanks for the detailed feedback!

Yes, the 1st boss is very tough - but that's how it should be. Especially in the demo we only have 20 waves and they still have to be challenging. What do you mean by losing “Meta Currency”? You only lose Honor when you spend it. Or have you encountered a bug?

Yes, the explanation of why you unlock the 3 new buildings is still missing, good point.

All banners have their strengths and their individual setup, where they can work well. Both of the banners you mentioned were successfully used by the Rank1 player, for example. It always depends. And that's where the RNG comes in: RNG is a good thing, but it can also be annoying. It can be annoying if you want to have the perfect run as you imagine it. But RNG sometimes opens your eyes to other builds, to other possibilities, presents you with other challenges and leads organically to exploration. Since the last patch, the map is also less luck-dependent and for the full version, additional RNG controllers such as “Banishs” etc. have been added. But also many more possibilities :)

I hope you had fun so far.

The problem is not me wanting a perfect run, but rng having an insanely high impact on your chances at start. Like getting a hero with extra wood. There is a guy who says he already reaching lvl 20 with a consistent strategy, without econ. In games like this econ should be something just get over with, so later in the game you can focus on how to deal with waves. My concern is the amount of busywork with econ, and not much return on investment. Even when you purely push economy you don't get noticable returns on investment by wawe 10. If you scatter your investments, then you won't get much towers either. Tried the build tall style it's not working well, because econ isn't helping much. Tried the scatter aproach it's working, but looked into what the guy wrote, it can work. But it's singularly boring over optimization. That could be good if you wan't the game to be extremely hard. Yeah that's nice for some people. BUt then the game loose the thing what most rougelites thrive in. Fun short runs, where you learn mistakes, and can experiment. Here you are set up into a singular path. Maybe just me not seeing the other upgrades avaliable and not having said bonuses makes scaling worse.

Also the loose of meta currency per run, is a little disappointing. Also not encourages experimentation. If you fail, you just lost everything. Works in some games, but when you have meta progression, then it feels bad to loose all your currency every run.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! We understand your concerns about RNG and the economic aspects at the start. We're currently in the prologue phase, where we're introducing the core loop and planning more variety early on, including city elements. Regarding meta currency, you don't actually lose progression; it accumulates over runs, encouraging experimentation without the fear of losing everything.

Appreciate your feedback as we continue to refine the game!

Cheers
Nando

[Seerorin]

Originally posted by Nando | Stunforge:

Originally posted by Seerorin:

The problem is not me wanting a perfect run, but rng having an insanely high impact on your chances at start. Like getting a hero with extra wood. There is a guy who says he already reaching lvl 20 with a consistent strategy, without econ. In games like this econ should be something just get over with, so later in the game you can focus on how to deal with waves. My concern is the amount of busywork with econ, and not much return on investment. Even when you purely push economy you don't get noticable returns on investment by wawe 10. If you scatter your investments, then you won't get much towers either. Tried the build tall style it's not working well, because econ isn't helping much. Tried the scatter aproach it's working, but looked into what the guy wrote, it can work. But it's singularly boring over optimization. That could be good if you wan't the game to be extremely hard. Yeah that's nice for some people. BUt then the game loose the thing what most rougelites thrive in. Fun short runs, where you learn mistakes, and can experiment. Here you are set up into a singular path. Maybe just me not seeing the other upgrades avaliable and not having said bonuses makes scaling worse.

Also the loose of meta currency per run, is a little disappointing. Also not encourages experimentation. If you fail, you just lost everything. Works in some games, but when you have meta progression, then it feels bad to loose all your currency every run.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! We understand your concerns about RNG and the economic aspects at the start. We're currently in the prologue phase, where we're introducing the core loop and planning more variety early on, including city elements. Regarding meta currency, you don't actually lose progression; it accumulates over runs, encouraging experimentation without the fear of losing everything.

Appreciate your feedback as we continue to refine the game!

Cheers
Nando

Then it's a bug because after every run honor resets to zero. If it wouldn't I would have unlocked everything, but I can't because I have to get 500 honor a run before I can proceed.

[Nando | Stunforge]

Originally posted by Seerorin:

Originally posted by Nando | Stunforge:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! We understand your concerns about RNG and the economic aspects at the start. We're currently in the prologue phase, where we're introducing the core loop and planning more variety early on, including city elements. Regarding meta currency, you don't actually lose progression; it accumulates over runs, encouraging experimentation without the fear of losing everything.

Appreciate your feedback as we continue to refine the game!

Cheers
Nando

Then it's a bug because after every run honor resets to zero. If it wouldn't I would have unlocked everything, but I can't because I have to get 500 honor a run before I can proceed.

Can you send us an ingame bug report when u experience this issue again maybe?

[Seerorin]

Originally posted by Nando | Stunforge:

Originally posted by Seerorin:

Then it's a bug because after every run honor resets to zero. If it wouldn't I would have unlocked everything, but I can't because I have to get 500 honor a run before I can proceed.

Can you send us an ingame bug report when u experience this issue again maybe?

Just played a game today, and it's not resetting anymore. So then you already solved it, or was just something weird. Because before this I lost all honor every single run.

[Nando | Stunforge]

Originally posted by Seerorin:

Originally posted by Nando | Stunforge:

Can you send us an ingame bug report when u experience this issue again maybe?

Just played a game today, and it's not resetting anymore. So then you already solved it, or was just something weird. Because before this I lost all honor every single run.

Glad to hear that :)

[OsamaBinDrinkin]

When you have more than one arrow tower in the same area their shots can "sync" and they both attack the same targets repeatedly, wasting one of their shots.

There should be some logic so that multiple towers don't attack a target that is already going to take lethal damage from a single tower.

[Nando | Stunforge]

Originally posted by OsamaBinDrinkin:

When you have more than one arrow tower in the same area their shots can "sync" and they both attack the same targets repeatedly, wasting one of their shots.

There should be some logic so that multiple towers don't attack a target that is already going to take lethal damage from a single tower.

Yes, that can happen. Your idea is also good, but a premature calculation before every single shot that takes into account every impact of every other projectile and the remaining life of every single enemy hit and adjusts the priority based on this would simply make the game 10-20% more imperformant. So let's stick with the TD classics: tower placement and prio setting must be used to avoid them.

[RogueSeraph257]

Fun game, can't wait for the full version. My only suggestion is I'd like to see some point awards even if you don't beat your previous, even if it's a small amount, say 5% of what you would have gotten if you beat it the first time.

[gjhall99]

Game is RNG based on what banners you are given. Be prepared to play over and over again hoping for better choices.

Luck rules whether you will win, not skill. Later levels randomize to such an extent that unless you have some super fusion build, you will be steamrolled as it's near impossible to suddenly switch your tower builds to accommodate the next wave due to the high cost of inflation on towers.

One wave you get hit with shield bearers and high hp mobs, next wave it's tons of mobs that spawn 10 when killed but if your build is for high hp mobs / shield bearers, when those spawners die and release 10 mobs each, you will be steamrolled because your towers aren't designed for that many spawners at one time. Restart!