Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
The Tactics int his game are not top notch, but not being able to beat heavy spear infanty with Italic cavalry in melee is not one of it's shortcomings.
So, all of that had to happen before cavalry could really be used as sledgehammer to break heavy lines with acceptable losses. As a side note, there are some historians who claim to have found evidence of foot stirrups as early as 500BC and Alexander's Companion's were operating around mid-third century BC.
But anyways, long story short, my point is, with all due respect, i think it's your tactics that are flawed, not the game's. Which is no biggie, there isn't exactly a boatload of Ancient Bronze Age video games out when compared to the number of Iron Age, Dark-High-Late Medieval games out there; But certainly if you try to apply the tactics of the heavy mailed and plate armored European knights of the 12th Century AD to maybe the 14th Century AD to Bronze Age Companion Cavalry from 338BC, you're gonna have alot of problems.
The Macedonian Phalanx had weaknesses similar to its hoplitic predecessor. Theoretically indestructible from the front, its flanks and rear were very vulnerable, and once engaged it may not easily disengage or redeploy to face a threat from those directions.
Unless my knowledge of English language is worse than I think, once you hit phalanx from the rear, they have difficultty to turn around and fight you effectively. Which is not the case here.
As for batte tactics, if you want cavalry to be used for chasing down escaping troops, then lower their attack rating... 100 points is more than most basic units. Combined with charge, it should be enough to defeat formation that gets most of it's defense from a wall of pikes.
That said, I already deleted the game as player's phalanxes are overpriced pieces of junk that AI can zerg rush, while AI's are indestructible walls of pikes that can make certain ninja from Naruto green in envy. And archers kill everything else. Honestly, using archers is like comming with a shotgun to a rock/paper/scissors game.
I don't remember Archers being particulary good against hoplites+ and without something to pin down the enemy they pretty much can be taken out by weaker units aswell. They are pretty funny if you give them a Ranged General and the Marksmen officer at lvl 4, tho.
were they really fielding "phalangites" or hoplites? because if they were not fielding the top tier greek unit but the one everyone has then the wikipedia article actually is not relevant, as only these fight in the fashion of the "Macedonian Phalanx"-Syntagma which is distinct from the "hoplite Phalanx". If the unit isn't fully engaged, and just driving off some braindead cavalrymen who charged head on into a body of spear armed enemies, there will always be some blokes at the back that have the time to turn around in that time(even in a macedonian phalanx, there are some guys at the back which don't haver their spears lowered(as they would only poke their friends)), and surprise, have spears in hand to poke the riders.
I mean what game have you been playing in which it's a good idea to fight heavy spear/pike infantry with cavalry??!??! In Hegemony they don't even get a stat bonus against cavalry, they just have superior chargeblock.
For comparison in Rome total war 1 AI (macedonian)Phalangites could and would turn around with their spears lowered(cliping through each other) if they were not fully engaged from the front, that was worse.
My forces:
Basic spearman Meat Shield MKI
Tier 4 or 5 capital city special unit
Basic throwing thingy unit
Cavalry unit.
After Meat Shield MKI and special unit occupied the spear guys, I charged in the back of the phalanx.
Result:
Meat Shield MKI routed.
Cavalry unit 25% loses.
Special unit surviven with one or two casultelies.
While I won, it was only because my special unit was alredy very experienced with very good general, by replacing it with a standard Meat Shield, or using only one Meat Shield, cavalry would lose because the spear thingy (I have no idea what that actually was, it had long spears and used phalax type formation) can turn around mid battle to face their opponents. While the opponents are right among them. With their battle line existing only on paper as they were traveling when I attacked.
As for the turing around to face the charge... the phalanx thingy had three lines of people going in a single direction.That's barely enough to face an assault from a single direction, much less from all sides. And while they might be able to turn around beat the cavalry once the charge got there, SOME damage should happen to them. We have unit facing FOR A REASON. The phalanx thingy in my first attempt brushed off the charge as inconsequential. In the second attempt the only effect was morale hit.. not actual casultelies.
As for where I learned to use cavalry vs pikes? Medieval Total War. In Rome I rarly bothered fighting enemy armies, diplomacy, bribery and assasination was both faster and easier. Although, I did use cavalry against spears several times. The trick was to charge from both sides and abort the charge against which the spear unit was oriented against. Or just continue, one cavalry unit would be wasted and the other would kill the morale in seconds.
Late units are so slow that Archers can turn them into a pin cushion before they can reach them. All my engagements against some sort of phalanx type units ended without involving my Meat Shield MKII units. Pure archer victory. Doesn't help when AI sends one or two units tops at half a dozen archers...
They tell you that there? well it's set in medieval times so at a point in history, where cavalry was strongest compared to infantry. Ancient Italy and greece are basically the complete opposite, as Polis structure and Republican concepts strengthened the lines of the citzen heavy infantry and neither demographics nor topographics lent themselves for effective noble cavalry. I mean at times the nobility just got off it's horses and duked it out on foot.
Rome 1 or 2? because eventho I prefer the Campaign map game over the battlemap I usually played out RTW1 battles because both Diplomacy and autocalc were so abysmal that it wasn't fun anymore, plus you could always have your heroic victory, when you did it yourself :D
Well If you have the superior numbers you should not be surprised to win an engagement. The games combat is mostly about outmaneuvering your enemy, obtaining local superiority in numbers and cutting of enemy supply routes.
You do have a legit complaint, but please don't package it in "My cavalry was beaten by hoplites, this game does not work!", because that sort of statement really annoys the heck out of me and generally provokes "getgud" statements.
Hoplites were some of the heaviest infantry to ever exist. At the time, true heavy cavalry capable of going toe to toe with infantry wasn't around yet. A hoplite formation certainly wouldn't have budged to a frontal assault of cavalry at the time. Although, you do have to bear in mind that the fact that the formation is only 3 men deep is an abstraction to fit the scale of the game.
The medieval era did indeed have the opposite dynamic in which heavy cavalry ruled supreme and there were very few infantry capable of resisting it.
I do agree though, that there's not enough of an effect that happens on a heavy infantry formation when it is attacked in the back.
Basically, outflanking a unit in this game seems only useful if that unit is already engaged with another unit as well, in which case their morale will drop rapidly.
Cavalry do great against missile units and light infantry (such as spearmen and skirmishers) where a single charge of some of the heavier cavalry types can wipe out a brigade nearly instantly. (Frankly, they seem a little too powerful against light infantry).
Basically, use your infantry to engage the enemy infantry, while the cavalry clear out their missile support and any light infantry that present a target of opportunity. When that's done, use them to attack the enemy infantry that's fighting your infantry in the back to sink their morale.
Personally, I never swarm large amounts of units, and it's definitely not necessary to do so to beat the AI. I prefer to use a handful of heavy infantry units that I am constantly promoting/upgrading alongside one or two cavalry units as support.
That said, the Gauls do lack good heavy infantry, and it might be worth getting hoplite mercenaries to fill that role.
Why did I say this? I said it because grouped units herp-derp like there's no tomorrow. Do not even try to group different types of units together, and don't group more than the bottleneck's width allows or else you're in a world of hurt.
In fact, when I later faced similar units, I could just skip the charge, skip the ranged support and have my special unit duke it out with hoplites. Tactics? Who needs those.
Rome 1. As the northern faction I used cavalry to wipe out Gauls. Germanic tribes were slightly more difficult, but managable. That's where I learned how to fight phalanx style formations.
Superior number of units is the only thing that can give you a victory here. Trying to defend a bottleneck Termopylae style is a recipee for a disaster. I saw AI units walk between two units belonging to me and attacking the unit behind them. I saw them swarm a unit from the front, with three cheap units engaging mine hoplites, they have swarmed it and wiped it out.
[/quote]
Well, battle system in this game doesn't work. I could be more sacrastic about it, but that would mean I actually care.
If you want something that represents or abstracts the concepts involved in more detail (and others) on the battlefield, that would be the Total War series. Most other games' RTS battles don't have that kind of tactical depth.
Oh, I did play TW series, hence mt attempt at such abstact concept as 'flanking with cavalry'.
I too come from Total War. I really Really want to like this game because the historical setting is spectacular and there are many good concepts in the game. Combat isn't one of them.
Your tactic doesn't work, because you need a heavy infantry to hold them in place to effectivly do the "Hit from behind" The Hoplite Defence is TOO high for a cav. to hold it's ground for long, and the Cav units have too few men compaired to a Hoplite unnit.
Try it again with the Hit and Run...It works like Magic.....
I just posted a thread asking for Spear and Phalanx units to have a higher Charge block, because I am taking out opponents entire kingdoms with just 2 cav...lol If you use them right, and give them the field commander upgrade, they are unstopable in the present format.