Can FC keep up with RoF? Is PWCG as good as in RoF?

[hansbrix]

Hey fellow pilots,

so I'm thinking about buying BoS and FC in Steam sale, but actually I've avoided buying those games in the past because of their ridiculous pricing... I mean seriously, wtf?

Anyway: I'm looking for the best and most immersive WW1 dogfight single player career experience and I'm not sure, if FC can hold up to my expectations or to what has already been done in RoF. The vanilla career mode is probably similar to the career mode in RoF i assume? So that's not all too impressive, since the squadrons don't even have their historical paintjobs and/or pilots/aces respectively (e. g. Jasta 11 without Richthofen etc.). PWCG fixed these problems masterfully for RoF and I know that there's also a PWCG for FC, so my question is: Is PWCG as awesome and detailed for FC as for RoF? Are the squadrons (including their skins) and pilots historically accurate? Does it run well and stable?
If so, I'll buy this rip-off of a game and join you in the skies.
Thanks in advance fo all your answers and happy flying everyone!

[Avi]

Originally posted by hansbrix:

I'm looking for the best and most immersive WW1 dogfight single player career experience

Check out Wings Over Flanders Fields if you've not already.

[Occupy Mars]

Originally posted by hansbrix:

If so, I'll buy this rip-off of a game and join you in the skies.

Don't bother.
Better that you take your negative attitude to another community.

[shadowgravy]

Flying Circus supports VR headsets, and does it very well. That is the #1 reason to consider FC in my opinion.

The stock game uses generic skins. I don't think they even get squadron or jasta specific. You won't see any historic aces by default. But you can manually assign skins within your flight before each career mission if you are playing as the commander.

I've never flown Rise of Flight so I don't have a comparison. From what I've seen, RoF is broader in content and arguably a better value for the budget minded.

I used the PWCG for FC back when it was the only option for a single player career. PWCG is well designed and immersive. I prefer the convenience of the in-game career generator; but the default career system is comparatively blunt and repetitive.

World War II has always been my jam. I never really enjoyed WWI flight sims (or mods built on WW2 sims) until I picked up Flying Circus Vol. !. My caveat is, I wanted to try FC in VR. I enjoy the open cockpits and visceral feel of the birds in VR ... but it's still rare when I choose to launch my FC content.

[hansbrix]

Originally posted by Avi0tsky:

Originally posted by hansbrix:

I'm looking for the best and most immersive WW1 dogfight single player career experience

Check out Wings Over Flanders Fields if you've not already.

Thanks for the tip. In terms of gameplay WOFF looks great, but the graphics are really outdated for the price they're charging. I just hope it'll be added to Steam someday, then I'll try it sooner or later.

Originally posted by The "Woke" Fear Elon (^.^):

Originally posted by hansbrix:

If so, I'll buy this rip-off of a game and join you in the skies.

Don't bother.
Better that you take your negative attitude to another community.

First of all, the game is objectively expensive. It has nothing to do with a negative attitude to call the game overpriced and therefore a rip-off for some people, like myself, who just want to try it out, but don't want or just can't spend over 100 bugs in total (when the game is not in sale). That's of course just my opinion and you're free to disagree :)

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

Flying Circus supports VR headsets, and does it very well. That is the #1 reason to consider FC in my opinion.

The stock game uses generic skins. I don't think they even get squadron or jasta specific. You won't see any historic aces by default. But you can manually assign skins within your flight before each career mission if you are playing as the commander.

I've never flown Rise of Flight so I don't have a comparison. From what I've seen, RoF is broader in content and arguably a better value for the budget minded.

I used the PWCG for FC back when it was the only option for a single player career. PWCG is well designed and immersive. I prefer the convenience of the in-game career generator; but the default career system is comparatively blunt and repetitive.

World War II has always been my jam. I never really enjoyed WWI flight sims (or mods built on WW2 sims) until I picked up Flying Circus Vol. !. My caveat is, I wanted to try FC in VR. I enjoy the open cockpits and visceral feel of the birds in VR ... but it's still rare when I choose to launch my FC content.

Thank you very much for this detailed and informative answer. Unfortunatly I don't own a VR set, but I've heard nothing but positive reviews about the FC-VR experience.
I've played RoF and I loved it. The PWCG was a great addition, but never worked completely flawless. The pilots couldn't die for example, which was immersion breaking. Do you by chance know, if the pilots are immortal in PWCG in FC?
So I can add historic aced by myself in my own squadron, but I won't be able to fight aces of the oppenent, if I understand you correctly? Or at least the planes don't have their historic skins, right? What's the difference between the in-game career generator and the default career? Can the player fully costumize a career mode? That'd be cool.
Thanks in advance for further answers.

[shadowgravy]

I haven't flown PWCG in over a year (maybe two) but I think I understand what you mean about not being able to die. Basically PWCG, operating outside the main sim, generates consecutive missions and saves them in your single mission folder and you play each one until you are satisfied with the result and then generate the next one. I do recall PWCG accounted for convalescent leave following wounds, which the default career system doesn't really do (or do well).

The default Flying Circus career uses the format established by the WW2 side of the Great Battles series. You can get a clean yet brief overview of WW2 career system at 14:00 in this video:
https://youtu.be/gmHiWie_tmE

Flying Circus has four nationalities to choose from. Once you join an air force, you can transfer between squadrons within that nationality, which allows you to switch aircraft types throughout the career. For game play you can select Iron Man mode, which means death or capture ends your career; or you can choose to replay a mission until you are satisfied with the result and then generate the next mission. In general you win commendations and awards, and advance in rank. The other personnel in your unit are nominal at best; you won't feel any sense of attachment to any of them. This streaming video is kind of hard to watch because the user is obviously fumbling his way through the career, but it is the best one I found that specifically shows Flying Circus's GUI and career mechanics:
https://www.youtube.com/live/aZGL_FsZKl4?feature=share

PWCG is just another way to skin the same cat. For about three years it was the way to have a dynamic career in Flying Circus. I think the squadron administration is better in PWCG, both for personnel and the assigned aircraft. The GUI environment is more immersive. The mission waypoints struck me as overly meandering compared to the default career, but as I recall you can edit them easily in PWCG whereas in default you are mostly stuck with the mission you are presented. I won't comment further because of my lack of recent familiarity with PWCG. This video may help you decide if PWCG in Flying Circus is similar to Rise of Flight or improved:
https://www.youtube.com/live/_Rx_m2QV9Nc?feature=share

[F.U.D.F.]

What are all these abbreviations??? I just started playing a few weeks ago but dang...would it kill you to write the entire thing the first time and then abbreviate after?

[Shawn]

PWCG = Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator. It is a free tool that a lot of people prefer to the game's native campaign, that was developed by Pat Wilson (duh), one of the game devs.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/99-pat-wilson-campaign-generator/

BOS = Battle of Stalingrad
ROF = Rise of Flight
FC = Flying Circus

Let us know if there are any more you need translated (insider lingo can be opaque).

[hansbrix]

Originally posted by Gatecrasher:

What are all these abbreviations??? I just started playing a few weeks ago but dang...would it kill you to write the entire thing the first time and then abbreviate after?

You're absolutely right, I should've written out the full names of the mods and games, the abbreviations can be a little irritating. Thanks @Shawn for the clarfication of the terminology.

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

I haven't flown PWCG in over a year (maybe two) but I think I understand what you mean about not being able to die. Basically PWCG, operating outside the main sim, generates consecutive missions and saves them in your single mission folder and you play each one until you are satisfied with the result and then generate the next one. I do recall PWCG accounted for convalescent leave following wounds, which the default career system doesn't really do (or do well).

The default Flying Circus career uses the format established by the WW2 side of the Great Battles series. You can get a clean yet brief overview of WW2 career system at 14:00 in this video:
https://youtu.be/gmHiWie_tmE

Flying Circus has four nationalities to choose from. Once you join an air force, you can transfer between squadrons within that nationality, which allows you to switch aircraft types throughout the career. For game play you can select Iron Man mode, which means death or capture ends your career; or you can choose to replay a mission until you are satisfied with the result and then generate the next mission. In general you win commendations and awards, and advance in rank. The other personnel in your unit are nominal at best; you won't feel any sense of attachment to any of them. This streaming video is kind of hard to watch because the user is obviously fumbling his way through the career, but it is the best one I found that specifically shows Flying Circus's GUI and career mechanics:
https://www.youtube.com/live/aZGL_FsZKl4?feature=share

PWCG is just another way to skin the same cat. For about three years it was the way to have a dynamic career in Flying Circus. I think the squadron administration is better in PWCG, both for personnel and the assigned aircraft. The GUI environment is more immersive. The mission waypoints struck me as overly meandering compared to the default career, but as I recall you can edit them easily in PWCG whereas in default you are mostly stuck with the mission you are presented. I won't comment further because of my lack of recent familiarity with PWCG. This video may help you decide if PWCG in Flying Circus is similar to Rise of Flight or improved:
https://www.youtube.com/live/_Rx_m2QV9Nc?feature=share

Thanks again for your helpful and detailed answer, it's much appreciated.

In the best working version of PWCG (v. 16.3.1) for RoF the pilots of your squadron including yourself couldn't die, but they could be severely injured and get convalescent leave, just as you've described it. That wasn't the case for earlier versions of the mod, that's why I'm curious, if that issue has been fixed for the PWCG for FC. That would be awesome. Unfortunately the guy in the PWCG video restarted the mission after his fatal plane crash, so I still can't tell if the immoratily issue has been fixed. The video gives great insight nevertheless, thanks for linking it.
If anybody could clarify if pilots are mortal in PWCG, it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks for all the video-links and the time stamps. The vanilla career mode looks very similar to the one of RoF, which I generally liked - I only missed the historical skins and pilots, which unfortunately don't seem to be part of the FC base game as well.

I'm specifically looking for the rpg-esque sense of attatchement to the pilots in my squadron in single player career mode, which PWCG managed to do in a great way (exept for their immortality) for RoF in combination with the historical skins signed to their specific squadrons.

[F.U.D.F.]

Thanks!

[F.U.D.F.]

Originally posted by Shawn:

PWCG = Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator. It is a free tool that a lot of people prefer to the game's native campaign, that was developed by Pat Wilson (duh), one of the game devs.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/99-pat-wilson-campaign-generator/

BOS = Battle of Stalingrad
ROF = Rise of Flight
FC = Flying Circus

Let us know if there are any more you need translated (insider lingo can be opaque).

preciate it!

[shadowgravy]

Originally posted by hansbrix:

I'm specifically looking for the rpg-esque sense of attatchement to the pilots in my squadron in single player career mode, which PWCG managed to do in a great way (exept for their immortality) for RoF in combination with the historical skins signed to their specific squadrons.

The PWCG discussion at the official forum Shawn linked is a better place to ask what PWCG does and does not do. The default career system is pragmatic but I think we can agree it doesn't provide the depth of immersion you are seeking.

I'll redirect to Avi0tsky's suggestion to Wings Over Flanders Field. I haven't played it myself but the campaign system looks to be very good.
https://www.youtube.com/live/ewEEL3gKkCs?feature=share

[F.U.D.F.]

Flight sim peeps are extremely nice people. Charitable too - they love to share their hobby. I guess I forgot that when i took a bratty tone with my comment about abbreviations, for that I apologize again. I hope to become a part of this community - just waiting for my HOTAS lol.

[hansbrix]

Originally posted by Gatecrasher:

Flight sim peeps are extremely nice people. Charitable too - they love to share their hobby.

That's absolutely true and I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank you all for your helpful answers (especially @shadowgravy) and also apologize for my harsh choice of words regarding the steep pricing of the game, I should've kept my frustration about it to myself. I didn't mean to spread negative vibes in any way (especially not amongst the great IL2 community) and I can only underline what Gatecrasher has said: you are all very nice and generous.
FC is undoubtedly a great flight sim and I'll give it a shot with PWCG.

Thank y'all again and happy flying!