Formation Flying

[trebor66]

It maybe me . Why do I seem to have a hard time keeping my spot in formation?
I fall behind then speed up and over shoot . If it's just lake of flight hours just tell me.

[Shawn]

The few times I play SP, I've really struggled to keep anywhere close to formation with AI.

When I (usually) fly MP we discuss loadouts, form up after takeoff, flight lead calls manifold pressure and announces changes, climb rates. rpm changes, etc, etc. It is a lot of work to fly close formation.

I'm sure people (esp pilots) know how to make it work with AI, but my experience is the same as yours.

[Weißbrot]

The AI is cheating, its impossible to keep up with AI.

[shadowgravy]

Put your own plane on autopilot and watch your controls and you'll see why it is so difficult to predict the AI's speed. The AI rocks the throttle between idle and full, and fluctuates other settings to compensate the sudden inputs. You can see it in their exhaust trails alternating between thick smoke and no smoke. If you know the average speed the formation is attempting to cruise at and you maintain that speed, you will have some luck maintaining your position while the other aircraft ebb and advance around you.

Sometimes the AI will outrun you while climbing to altitude, or will suddenly lose speed preparing for a turn at a waypoint and then just as suddenly regain that speed. It's a frustrating behavior we just have to live with. I fly somewhere near the formation and do my best to avoid a collision.

[longcheck]

It' ridiculous so don't even try. Real pilots set their planes to cruise and formation flying wasn't as difficult as it is with AI

[longcheck]

OFF SUBJECT but I jumped into a tank just to see what it's all about and now my 109 is stuck with the HUD, something I find very distracting. I can't remember how to get rid of it. I've tried Basic Options but that doesn't help. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[3/4 MILE, CALL THE BALL]

Originally posted by longcheck:

.Real pilots set their planes to cruise.

The lead sets their throttle.
Wingmen have to work it to hold position depending on the formation.
That's why when you check fuel states the wingmen are always less than the leader.
The wingmen have been moving their throttle while the leader has not.

The AI also doesn't talk to you or use signals as in real life. The AI just does things. (^.^)
Reality? An example would be the lead saying "speed brakes" just prior to opening theirs.
Then all open together.
If it's EMCON then the lead will "crack" their speed brakes as a signal they will open soon.
Crack... pause... Open Full.
As a wingman I see the crack and know full speed brakes are about to happen.

The good news is the AI won't dress you down after the mission if you weren't in formation.
So, don't worry about it.

[shadowgravy]

Originally posted by longcheck:

OFF SUBJECT but I jumped into a tank just to see what it's all about and now my 109 is stuck with the HUD, something I find very distracting. I can't remember how to get rid of it. I've tried Basic Options but that doesn't help. Any suggestions? Thanks.

H, as I recall.

I use the mod that gets rid of the ammo counter, etc. when the mini map is up. The mod doesn't seem to affect the tanks much if at all.

[longcheck]

Thanks! I've almost worn out the H key but I'll keep experimenting. Strangely, the map is now connected to the HUD display and H turns both off. I also now have red and blue ID markers and arrows for planes and it's driving me mad. My dog was right, it's somewhere in Basic Options but he's not saying any more.

[shadowgravy]

Yeah, some of the functions are interconnected and can't be separated in a way that suited me, that's why I use a remove speed bar mod and I've modified my icons to remove waypoints and reduce the aircraft and vehicle markers to small arrows and squares. And I use Voice Attack so honestly I don't remember most of the basic keyboard commands.

With VA and my mods, I have separate commands for "Show Map" (it cycles the mini-maps and off); and "Show Markers" (toggles on/off navigation and target icons, and for me just the small wind direction compass). I believe that without the speed bar mod enabled I'd also be toggling the ammo counter, G-meter, speed info and whatever else is on that bank of arcade panels.

I also have a command for "Show HUD" that I never use when flying aircraft so maybe I assigned it for the tanks? I think this command toggles on/off the ability to have any of the pop-ups showing, including Technochat icons and maybe the radio messages as well.

Some of the pop-ups can be disabled within game settings. Look at the settings tab labeled Game first, I think that is where some of the big ones live. Then look at your realism settings, I think that covers Technochat and maybe some of the others.

[Kuban8]

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

Put your own plane on autopilot and watch your controls and you'll see why it is so difficult to predict the AI's speed. The AI rocks the throttle between idle and full, and fluctuates other settings to compensate the sudden inputs. You can see it in their exhaust trails alternating between thick smoke and no smoke. If you know the average speed the formation is attempting to cruise at and you maintain that speed, you will have some luck maintaining your position while the other aircraft ebb and advance around you.

Sometimes the AI will outrun you while climbing to altitude, or will suddenly lose speed preparing for a turn at a waypoint and then just as suddenly regain that speed. It's a frustrating behavior we just have to live with. I fly somewhere near the formation and do my best to avoid a collision.

All true! Formating with your AI wingmen can be done well, but it's tricky & takes a lot of practice...ya gotta be a throttle jockey, always dinking back & forth on the throttle as the AI do. Also, know your ship; some are very 'slippery', eg., P-51, and don't slow down as soon as you chop the throttle, whereas the P-40 is big bull of a ship...more throttle input's required to gain speed and as soon as you cut throttle it's slows right down. Once you get the hang of it though formation flying really passes the time on a long Pilot Career mission to the target.

[longcheck]

HUD: I had to climb back into the Panzer and disable the HUD by clicking "H". I could not separate my plane's HUD from mini-map any other way.

[ngpilot]

Real life formation is a lot easier due to feeling intertia/better spatial awareness. You also waste a ton of fuel with throttle corrections, just gotta work that throttle. One thing in sims that helps me is not looking directly at the plane you're forming on, but look ahead and keep it in your peripheral - you'll be able to better notice if it is pulling away from you or not.

[Horendus]

Ok so im glad its not just me...

[skitzbuckethatz]

I too was wondering why formation flying with AI was harder than shooting down aircraft with a couple .30s...

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

yeah, it's always been tricky.

As long as you're in the "bunch" imho that's more than enough.