My aircraft easily loose control when I pitch up 100%? Any one can help?

[xebra.yu]

I play BOS in Oculus VR with CH combatstick 586 and it's no problem in joystick calibration in key mapping settings for both pitch and roll, and my yaw is not mapping with any controls and there's no any multi-settings of these controls. When I raise my elevator fully, either when I want to level up in a dive, or do an Inmalmann turn, my aircraft easily loose control with some according and continous yawing or rolling and it's hard to recover my attitude and eventually crash into the ground. This makes me fail to fly the mission. I feel this is some bugs in the aircraft maneuvering physics calculation, not hardware calibration issues, because I have noted that the joystick in my VR view is always sync up with my real joystick control. I fly very well and do the same thing well in other flight sim application like Microsoft Flight simulator and this issue makes me almost abort this game. Can any one help me out of this? Would very appreciate.

[Frenchy56]

Easy. Don't pull the stick too hard. It's literally written on the technochat.
You better pull it as hard as you can to get out of a dive in a 109 though.

[Adler]

What are you flying anyway? Fw190 can get like this super easy, bf109 I am not sure, I don't use them much.

[Bakuda]

Realistic flght charactoristics, some planes can some planes can't. Some plans perform better at, say high altitudes but suck and lower altitudes. The Fw190 for example has an insane roll ability and it's strength is it's ability to dive getting great speed and pull up and regain altitude rapidly using the energy from the dive, while a BF109 with adjusted flaps will challenge almost anything in tight turns. The Il2 Sturmovik at low altitudes flys faster (Cruise speed) and handles better at lower altitudes, and when an enemty plane is diving down on it from above, it can nearly turn on a dime at low speeds with adjusted flaps.

[Krupinski]

Not sure if you're trolling or being serious... There is nothing wrong with the flight calculation, what you're experiencing is the same thing that happens to planes IRL. When you pull back on the stick 100%, at such a high deflection the wings can no longer generate lift, which causes them to stall and drop to one side, in other words your plane begins to fall out of the sky. This is why you are losing control. Microsoft Flight Simulator isn't known for having the most realistic flight models, in fact they're very bad compared to modern sims like this, or even the X-Plane series.

[xebra.yu]

Actually I tried several aircrafts including bf109, ju87, and Lagg and all have the same problems.
So I suspect the basic aerodynamics calculation has some issue. I bought this game three weeks ago and I played it every night. This issue was not happening very often in the first days and actually I won the dog fight very often. But strangly it happens more often in the past days. Why I believe it acts wrong is because that, for example, when I do an Inmalmann the aircraft can pitch up vertically for the first 90 degree phase, which means my aircraft is almost 90 degree to the ground, and without doing any rolling, it deviates to left and left and turns to a horizontal left spin. Then I tried to pull it to the right, I can also see the stick in my VR view is matching with my real joystick, but it keeps turning left and I can't correct its attitude. When its nose down and down, I tried to power down to 0 and let it drift, trying to pull back from the slow diving, but nothing work.

First, if my Inmalmann gets stall at 90 degree phase, it shouldn't deviates left anyway, but only speed gets very slow. Second, in a slow dive, the aircraft should be eazy to pull up because the inertia is smaller and the speed is enough. I don't just find the problem for one day before I issue this question. This action should not happen on a real aircraft.

[40+]

You're not the first person to post this question. The response to every thread that comes up is that this flight model is more realistic than others. We, as gamers, are not used to it because previous flight sims didn't do it right.

I'm with you though in that I'm not 100% convinced. I've learned to fly with this model in place but I'd love to get some validation of the fact that WW2 fighters would spin on a dime if you so much as thought of pulling hard on the stick. I'm keeping an open mind though. If it turns out to be true, then I've learned something new.

[Krupinski]

Yep definitely trolling, you guys didn't read a word I typed.

[Adler]

Maybe watch this first...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khe3UF9i6Dg

[40+]

Originally posted by InPrøgress:

Maybe watch this first...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khe3UF9i6Dg

Brilliant! That's just what I was looking for. Thanks.

[xebra.yu]

OK. Look like I need to do those aircraft manueuvering at higher speed. So I tried today doing some Inmalmann in a BF-109 at around 450 km/h speed of level flying. I can get more control of it now, though the speed quickly slow down to under 200 km/h when I pitch up to around 120 or 130 degrees phase and it turn into left spin, but eventually I can level it back to a controllable attitude. Now I see this is what a real WWII aircraft can happen. And my problem is that I didn't have enough speed.

Thanks for all your response. Especially the valueable video. Hope every one fly better and better.

[Arctic_0]

Originally posted by pfrances:

You're not the first person to post this question. The response to every thread that comes up is that this flight model is more realistic than others. We, as gamers, are not used to it because previous flight sims didn't do it right.

I'm with you though in that I'm not 100% convinced. I've learned to fly with this model in place but I'd love to get some validation of the fact that WW2 fighters would spin on a dime if you so much as thought of pulling hard on the stick. I'm keeping an open mind though. If it turns out to be true, then I've learned something new.

I don't know man. I'm a real life pilot and I have flown not only DA40, C172 and 152 aerobatics model but also EA300 for my aerobatics flights. While the flight dynamics can be said to be pretty accurate, my personal experience tells me that real life aircraft don't really behave like this and this is one reason I don't like playing IL-2 or War Thunder even. But hey, at least rudders DO work in IL-2. And I exaggerate this because WT has terrible flight dynamics. Some people consider WT as a flight sim as well, it's no more than a slightly complicated arcade game. When you flight, rudder inputs are a must whereas most WT players don't.

Someone above said FSX does not represent good flight dynamics and while it's true in a way (I mean C172's climb speed is VERY off) modern aircraft behave similar to FSX than IL-2. If you pull your nose up too high, yes. The wings will stall and depending on the angle your engines will start to stall as well. Then it will nose dive or depending on the situations (such as your rudder input) you will start to spin. In that sense I guess the game's flight model is pretty accurate. I mean, a number of death during the WW2 was induced by spin and stall. Could be the aircraft designs back then that contradicts my personal experience. Or it could be the gigantic radial engine that I'm not getting used to. But really, all aircraft have what we call the V-speeds and this game doesn't even inform you about that. There aren't any manuals or in game tutorials that teaches new-to-these-aircraft about these critical V-speeds. Doesn't tell us aircraft behaviors. My guess is that this is why people find it hard to play this game. Admit it. It's not the most user friendly game. Half of the critical keys aren't even assigned either.

[heartc]

Originally posted by Frost:

Someone above said FSX does not represent good flight dynamics and while it's true in a way (I mean C172's climb speed is VERY off) modern aircraft behave similar to FSX than IL-2. If you pull your nose up too high, yes. The wings will stall and depending on the angle your engines will start to stall as well. Then it will nose dive or depending on the situations (such as your rudder input) you will start to spin. In that sense I guess the game's flight model is pretty accurate. I mean, a number of death during the WW2 was induced by spin and stall. Could be the aircraft designs back then that contradicts my personal experience. Or it could be the gigantic radial engine that I'm not getting used to.

Are you saying it is nose attitude that determines whether a plane stalls?

[kalnaren]

Originally posted by xebra.yu:

I play BOS in Oculus VR with CH combatstick 586 and it's no problem in joystick calibration in key mapping settings for both pitch and roll, and my yaw is not mapping with any controls and there's no any multi-settings of these controls. When I raise my elevator fully, either when I want to level up in a dive, or do an Inmalmann turn, my aircraft easily loose control with some according and continous yawing or rolling and it's hard to recover my attitude and eventually crash into the ground. This makes me fail to fly the mission. I feel this is some bugs in the aircraft maneuvering physics calculation, not hardware calibration issues, because I have noted that the joystick in my VR view is always sync up with my real joystick control. I fly very well and do the same thing well in other flight sim application like Microsoft Flight simulator and this issue makes me almost abort this game. Can any one help me out of this? Would very appreciate.

You're forcing the plane past the critical angle of attack. Have a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_attack

This is expected behaviour. A plane will stall at any airspeed and any attitude so long as the critical AoA is exceeded.

Here's an old video I did of a FW-190 showing this behaviour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug09s5YP-d8

And here's a real plane forced into a spin (induced via level stall + rudder)

https://youtu.be/4dSrjVR0MvE?t=21

Don't stall, and you won't spin ;)

This behaviour can catch people off guard who aren't used to actual, proper simulations.

Originally posted by Frost:

I don't know man. I'm a real life pilot and I have flown not only DA40, C172 and 152 aerobatics model but also EA300 for my aerobatics flights. While the flight dynamics can be said to be pretty accurate, my personal experience tells me that real life aircraft don't really behave like this and this is one reason I don't like playing IL-2 or War Thunder even.

The DA40, 172 and 152 are very stable aircraft with much less control authority than warbirds (haven't flown the EA300, so can't comment on that one). Even then, I've never gone to full deflection on the elevator in a general aviation aircraft even when doing upper airwork.

I have found gliders much easier to force past the critical AoA, and I've flipped an SGS-233A into a spin this way. Tons of elevator authority even at low speed. I suspect I could have done the same thing with a Puchacz (those things spin like a top!) but never tried.

I don't think it's out of question for warbirds to behave this way. This is one of the reasons some have leading edge slats, to help with high AoA. This is why the Me-109 is much more tolerant of aggressive pitch maneuvers.

[unknown]

Really depends on the airplane. Some planes like the p-51 mustang you really don't want to go over 25% total traverse for the elevator and alerons due to how easily that plane will go into an uncontrollable spin and stall. So for that plane you will generally find yourself barely moving the stick. When other planes you can. Though i would say 80% of all aircraft you will only every use full control surfaces for emergancy manuvers for things like counteracting the stall like in the video displayed by @kalnaren of the censna. Though for that plane you don't really need to go full movement even in a stall

[Ribbon]

I've read these same issues reported to many RL aircraft manufacturer forums!

Hope they'll fix it soon! ;)