Level powers and perks NEED to be relevent to your fighting style.

[Ahzru'kahn]

You start the game and you choose either a bow, a melee weapon or a staff. in a way, that's basically you're preferred play style that you choose from the get go.. I love mage. The spell powers and passives are very cool and I just genuinely enjoy it over archery and Melee.

when you level, the passives and perks are randomized and if you don't have enough for a reset of options.. you're forced to choose one of the 4 options ability above.
Several several runs, I have had at least 2 - 3 different levels where the only abilities apply to bows and melee. I don't use these.. I don't want to use these. I like being a mage.

now... because I cannot afford to jumble the options for different ones.. I am forced to choose one of these.. and it's even worse if they're all powers because that literally takes up one of my 1 2 3 4 hotkeys for abilities.. If i'm gonna use a staff and my 2nd 3rd and 4th ablility say *only works on bows/swords* i'm pissed because this run is now trash. Now my character will never be able to be as strategically powerful as I can make them.

It would be different if as a mage I only got spell and magic passives/power options when I level up. "oh I rolled not very good spells" Ok... thats not great... but at least I CAN ACTUALLY USE THEM ALL..

"well what would you have it be like instead?"

I know the game is still beta and there are great things to come. Personally once there are some more spells and or abilities for ALL playing styles.. I would have the player choose which spells and abilities they wish to get by choosing their weapon at the beginning.

I would have the player choose the fighting style based on weapon but... add a 4th option that says "grab one off the table" or "..out of the chest". This 4th option would NOT choose a specific fighting style for what style of abilities to give when you level. instead It would instead keep the current version of mixed fighting style ability options.

Other ideas related to this could include changing spells for a cost, or even buying specific ones you want in between levels in town, or even the ability to change different weapon mid fight.

[MarkD]

I'm considering buying this game and this is the thing that concerns me the most. I know the dev is going for a "make your own class" system, but you can't really make your own class if you're inevitably forced to pick skills you don't want. There should definitely be a way to narrow down the choices. I saw on the game's roadmap that they are planning to add Necromancer, Hunter and Monk classes and my first thought was, "How can I make a Necromancer if I end up being forced to pick skills that are not relevant to that?" An effective minion summoning build requires careful specialization, I know from playing lots of ARPGs. As a prospective buyer, I would like to know if this game will let me make the characters I want or if I'm going to end up stuck with trash builds because of RNG.

[Dejawuu]

i actually think that would limit you in building your character in ways i dont think are helpful. leveling up is easy enough without having to lock you out of rolling certain skills. starting weapons only matter for like the first 10 minutes.

[Ahzru'kahn]

Originally posted by Dejawuu:

i actually think that would limit you in building your character in ways i dont think are helpful.

How? It literally already does limit your character in way that are not helpful by giving you perks and skills that you LITERALLY cannot use or benefit from.

I would understand you having a perk for an axe and a perk for magic if you could hotswap to a different weapon fast and while mid combat.. but that isnt implemented here yet so it's very troublesome to not have 4 usable spells based on pure luck.

Originally posted by Dejawuu:

...leveling up is easy enough without having to lock you out of rolling certain skills. starting weapons only matter for like the first 10 minutes.

I also don't think you're seeing the point of the discussion.. It's not about how hard or how easy it is.. it's about not being forced into total disadvantage. If I rolled all perks and powers that weren't great or not really what I wanted... BUT I COULD USE THEM.. LIKE AT ALL... then it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't undervalue or have any dislike to a Spell-Sword playthrough.. being a Spell-Sword is a fantastic way to play but it just isn't really optimal at the current stages of this game.

[MarkD]

Originally posted by Dejawuu:

i actually think that would limit you in building your character in ways i dont think are helpful. leveling up is easy enough without having to lock you out of rolling certain skills. starting weapons only matter for like the first 10 minutes.

You missed the point, the OP wasn't talking about the starting weapons themselves. He was saying that the choice of weapons should be used as a choice of class (warrior, rogue or mage). And I don't think that would be too limiting, being stuck with skills you don't want because you have to choose from randomly chosen ones is more limiting than giving the player some control over it.

[DPA. Capitan Salchicha de Pollo]

I created the game thinking about building hybrid strategies. The first player to beat the final boss was using a bow and magic build and I've always liked that. Especially thinking about the skills I want to incorporate later. Maybe a solution would be to reduce the cost of the reroll.

[DPA. Capitan Salchicha de Pollo]

Reduce the cost of reroll to 1 divine coin. I think you guys are right and the game is better this way. Let me know what you think.

[kyro]

Another possible option would be to weight the probability of seeing certain spells/passives based on the existing values the character has upon level up. For example, maybe you're much less likely to see Fireball until you have over a certain amount of magic damage, and less likely to see it when you don't.

[Ahzru'kahn]

Originally posted by DPA. Capitan Salchicha de Pollo:

Reduce the cost of reroll to 1 divine coin. I think you guys are right and the game is better this way. Let me know what you think.

I will say that with this being so cheap you can get more selective with powers and avoid the lock in with powers you can't use. I still think it's possible to technically have 0 divine coins and still get locked in with something you may not want, but it's definitely way more avoidable once you level up and start getting more divine coins.

[Ahzru'kahn]

if you looking for ideas on how to dish out the spells and skills available I know some games do ability granting differently.. off the top of my head.. the usual ways are..

The "recommendation" this way is by having the game look at what averages the player uses for how they fight or get around.. i.e. if the player uses more magic, than melee, there is a greater likelihood there will be magic related powers available next level up.

The Dot Matrix way which is by having several several different power ups, displayed out on an unlockable grid that initially connects a dot matrix of higher advanced versioned attacks based the path you choose.

"Class selection" way is the way where they choose from the start what class they want.. and from that play through they NEVER get any abilities that are not that of how their class attacks work. Passives that apply regardless of weapon or class could still be available.

The Learning method way... sorta what like Elder Scrolls Online did... is where you learn by using. The player can use anything but need to master that style of attack or spell in order to benefit from it. The more you use it the more you can make it stronger or even mutate it's effects. However If you use a staff all game up to level 15 and then start using an axe, you won't be as good with it and wont do as much damage..

The Book finder way.. I call it that because In Indiana Jones and the Great circle, you find books throughout the world and choose which ones to really learn as a way of choosing and picking your skills. You could have the players start off with basic means to defend themselves but have then require field work discoveries to actually unlock more powers...

I still think the passives and Abilities are pretty effective and unique enough to have a different play style every death. If the player really wants specific abilities, now they know at least they need divine coins for that. Worst case scenario, oh god I got a power I don't like (but it;s super early on) so restarting isn't a huge deal yet.

Btw - please don't take any of these discussions about possible changes for the idea that we don't enjoy the game. I own 450+ games and I really really wish more of them did this 2.5D concept.

like.... It reminds me of my Game boy Color but mixed with a topdown landscape that mimics that of the original Laura Croft environments. Like Terraria became a top-down dungeon crawler. Bright futures are on the horizon my friend. Keep up the good work.