Demo Completion Gameplay review

[zBIR0]

This is an in-depth gameplay review of the game in terms of gameplay loop, analysis of beginner strategy and its effect on the overall "feel" of the game in terms of balance and enjoyment. I can't believe I typed all of it out, and it's a bit rambling, but I felt that I wanted to get you my thoughts and experience for providing a free demo of a product that still obviously can receive lots of balance, but I also wanted to bring up some overarching themes that I felt myself experiencing through my plays that might need a bit of attention. Things are probably easier discussed over voice chat if anyone from the dev team wants to reach out.

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First off, props to the art, themeing of the buffs/modifiers to enemies, and selection of relics. I have unlocked all items in the demo and completed the achievements, and from this pattern of aiming for builds that can repeatedly beat the act 2 boss, I find that volatility and the feeling of lack of control makes the game feel a lot less strategic than Balatro.
**But wait** This is a slot machine roguelike you say, isn't volatility all part of the game?

And that's exactly the issue--I've had lots of experience with casino games, as well as slot machine roguelikes of Luck Be a Landlord or Lucky Mayor, and the volatility of Jacks or Better video poker (similar to Balatro) is much lower than a 3-reel slot machine [1], let alone this 5-reel configuration. Of course, volatility can be tuned--maybe a starting character has more lines, or the slot pays both left-to-right and right-to-left, or the player has more symbol holds, or symbols are stacked/grouped, or a multi-way matching grading is used (see Megaways(TM) slots). But the overall takeaway is that the volatility is quite extreme, and structure of the game means that we can't rely on say relic synergy for a Balatro equivalent of "High Card/Match-1s", and the game quickly degenerates down to a game of "how consistent can you make the reels" instead of interesting relic combinations.

The main pitch is that the meditations reduce the variance of the outcomes to the point that control and strategy are employed, but I find that the game might need more interaction. Why waste 1 or 2 meditations unless you already have a wild in row 2 column 2. Even a 3-match isn't very useful with later enemies. Why rely on spending meditations when you already have a bank of replenishing Casts and just let randomness take the wheel?

Did I enjoy learning the game's strategy and relic builds? Yes, but the fact that matches need to occur in order vs LBAL's adjacency-based system, means much lower hit rates. Holds aren't very useful if the back symbols don't get activated because you only match 2 (yes I know there are relics were you can use this to your advantage, and I found a Wild Card build to be somewhat fun, but only after the grueling process of thinning out my deck to consistently hit match-5s without holds). Unlocking the Helping Hand relic and playing with it felt great, especially if it doesn't improve your outcome knowing that you didn't waste additional meditations (it's just not that great because it can't help re-rolling column 1 to a better symbol).

The fact is, there is a lot less variability in an Ante 1, Small Blind start in Balatro than the starting slime, and the game can get very snowball-y: you go for a straight, flush, or full house and you can complete it in 1 round, keeping all your bonus cash. One-Shotting the Slime requires match-3s, which by my rough estimates happens less than 20% of the time. Sure, he's easy trivial to beat, you might take home a couple fewer coins--the game is definitely lenient in that sense, but the very quick enemy scaling often leaves you feeling unsatisfied with an incomplete build after a game of mostly spinning without much strategy just to hit a hallway enemy with match-2s and 3s. What's the ideal strategy then? Optimizing/thinning your deck.

Issue #1: Position value of columns
Very quickly, a player learns optimal strategy for additions to one's deck:
A. Column 2 is the most valuable for wilds (unless going for that single earth build)
B. Column 1 is the most valuable for match-based strategies, and where you want to drop your first auras & thin out your element-based bonuses.
C. Thin out Column 1 and 2 with death amulets and deletes, respectively. Now that you have a stable and consistent match-3 setup, you can attempt to upgrade/delete the rest of your deck. Death relics on back columns don't work because you are less likely to match them. But you might as well use the deletion scroll. I know there will be a future interaction with the necronomicon and phylacterry, but for now even the skull amulets on column 2 rarely hit--you have to keep the unwanted symbols on Col 1 until after Col 2 is removed (hurting your deck's consistency), or they'll linger around until you can delete them with a scroll or pay the orc.
D. The Mind Aura is absolutely essential to having any sort of control with your deck/reels leading to the

Issue #1: Deck Thinning
Unlike Balatro, where cards have a rank and suit, and deletes are more rare and expensive, a slot machine roguelike needs a LOT of deck thinning before it feels anywhere near consistent due to the exponential rarity of additional matches. Currently, deletes are somewhat rare and expensive, and scroll-based removal requires you to draw that unwanted rune, which is again quite difficult due to only seeing 1/6th of your column pool each spin. I get that it's hard to balance between making things too cheap and too consistent, but due to the nature of relying on higher-tier matches, all decks need to follow the same strategy for consistency of lower-tier match first.
(in Balatro, you can upgrade hand types, but there's not an equivalent in this game, you just kind of hope you get a 3/4/5-match).

Issue #2:
Elements definitely have higher and lower tiers in terms of relic synergy, but this also means you have to commit fairly early to an element and hope you can find synergistic relics, and going the route of a lower-tier element just feels bad as you struggle with a lower power level and more limited resources.

For example, you're given a nice elemental-focus relic in shop 1, even if you pick it up, there's still like a 60% chance that you don't have that element in column 1 at all on first spin. Also, if we could have a chance to use scrolls after the final cast of a round with the resulting symbols, it would be much easier to use the scrolls to target our premium elemental symbols, as the process of waiting for the right time to use a deck-shaping scroll is half the battle. In Balatro, if you start off going for spades, you could still rely on High Card, or Two Pair, etc. The lack of pathways to pivot in this game emphasizes the snowball vs strategy feeling.

Looping back on element tier list, Light is S-tier because you can get money with collection box, it's high base dmg value, and mostly, it has a retrigger potential with its rare relic.

Issue #3: C.R.E.A.M.
In a game where synergies are so important, quickly amassing $$ is a go-to strategy. First off, there are relics that highly synergize with current money, but you also need money for a lot of the aforementioned deck thinning, relic filtering, and rune upgrades/amulet scrolls. And the game definitely has a snowbally, win-more flow and feel if you're able to beat enemies faster, you get more cash, and can see more options.

Strategy overview:
Deck Thinning: Very expensive (plus opportunity cost of shop options) at the Orc. This causes a mad rush for a Mind Aura relic in Column 1 as a first priority, as that will generate free scrolls that can help you effectively sculpt your deck. It's simply impossible to sculpt without this flow of free scrolls, (yes, I even had a money-Maximized build).
Going down to 2 elements on the first 3 reels costs 4 elements * 3 symbols * 3 cols = 36 removals! Maybe the number of elements should be lower?

Fast Econ and Fast Damage are the best early relics (+300 dmg -4 holds or +50dmg/Meditation, or +1 coin/meditation) are some of the best early relics, as with Plasma Deck strategy, high chips can keep you alive for a bit until you get your Mult and xMult online. Many xMult requires matching 4 and 5 of a kind consistently or require lots Growing (oh yeah the Tidy Tie is absolute garbage). And the insane econ growth with an extra 7-8 coins each round by keeping meditations high makes the bounty hunter relic look pathetic (I did have a run where I picked up both, and managed to build a deck, but it was also only due to having Axes Akimbo early.

The Pocket Forge item seems fun at first, but you find yourself in the situation where you want to thin your deck to get consistent fire activations (haste boots are a must), but you also have to time your forge attempts to Minibosses so that your meditations are restored. A fun game-within-a-game factor, but again loops back to inconsistency, let alone taking up a slot of its own without adding to damage calculations.

Maybe amulets that have a probability of morphing adjacent runes, or have an embedded skip interaction, or +1 match length will make things more interactive-feeling (or maybe they'll just dilute the pool of good scrolls even more).

[1] ref. Wizard of Odds analysis of VP (SD 4.5) : https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/appendix/3/ and a simple 3-reel slot (SD 9): https://wizardofodds.com/games/slots/appendix/6/

[Klaus]

Originally posted by zBIR0:

This is an in-depth gameplay review of the game in terms of gameplay loop, analysis of beginner strategy and its effect on the overall "feel" of the game in terms of balance and enjoyment. I can't believe I typed all of it out, and it's a bit rambling, but I felt that I wanted to get you my thoughts and experience for providing a free demo of a product that still obviously can receive lots of balance, but I also wanted to bring up some overarching themes that I felt myself experiencing through my plays that might need a bit of attention. Things are probably easier discussed over voice chat if anyone from the dev team wants to reach out.

----------------------------------------
First off, props to the art, themeing of the buffs/modifiers to enemies, and selection of relics. I have unlocked all items in the demo and completed the achievements, and from this pattern of aiming for builds that can repeatedly beat the act 2 boss, I find that volatility and the feeling of lack of control makes the game feel a lot less strategic than Balatro.
**But wait** This is a slot machine roguelike you say, isn't volatility all part of the game?

And that's exactly the issue--I've had lots of experience with casino games, as well as slot machine roguelikes of Luck Be a Landlord or Lucky Mayor, and the volatility of Jacks or Better video poker (similar to Balatro) is much lower than a 3-reel slot machine [1], let alone this 5-reel configuration. Of course, volatility can be tuned--maybe a starting character has more lines, or the slot pays both left-to-right and right-to-left, or the player has more symbol holds, or symbols are stacked/grouped, or a multi-way matching grading is used (see Megaways(TM) slots). But the overall takeaway is that the volatility is quite extreme, and structure of the game means that we can't rely on say relic synergy for a Balatro equivalent of "High Card/Match-1s", and the game quickly degenerates down to a game of "how consistent can you make the reels" instead of interesting relic combinations.

The main pitch is that the meditations reduce the variance of the outcomes to the point that control and strategy are employed, but I find that the game might need more interaction. Why waste 1 or 2 meditations unless you already have a wild in row 2 column 2. Even a 3-match isn't very useful with later enemies. Why rely on spending meditations when you already have a bank of replenishing Casts and just let randomness take the wheel?

Did I enjoy learning the game's strategy and relic builds? Yes, but the fact that matches need to occur in order vs LBAL's adjacency-based system, means much lower hit rates. Holds aren't very useful if the back symbols don't get activated because you only match 2 (yes I know there are relics were you can use this to your advantage, and I found a Wild Card build to be somewhat fun, but only after the grueling process of thinning out my deck to consistently hit match-5s without holds). Unlocking the Helping Hand relic and playing with it felt great, especially if it doesn't improve your outcome knowing that you didn't waste additional meditations (it's just not that great because it can't help re-rolling column 1 to a better symbol).

The fact is, there is a lot less variability in an Ante 1, Small Blind start in Balatro than the starting slime, and the game can get very snowball-y: you go for a straight, flush, or full house and you can complete it in 1 round, keeping all your bonus cash. One-Shotting the Slime requires match-3s, which by my rough estimates happens less than 20% of the time. Sure, he's easy trivial to beat, you might take home a couple fewer coins--the game is definitely lenient in that sense, but the very quick enemy scaling often leaves you feeling unsatisfied with an incomplete build after a game of mostly spinning without much strategy just to hit a hallway enemy with match-2s and 3s. What's the ideal strategy then? Optimizing/thinning your deck.

Issue #1: Position value of columns
Very quickly, a player learns optimal strategy for additions to one's deck:
A. Column 2 is the most valuable for wilds (unless going for that single earth build)
B. Column 1 is the most valuable for match-based strategies, and where you want to drop your first auras & thin out your element-based bonuses.
C. Thin out Column 1 and 2 with death amulets and deletes, respectively. Now that you have a stable and consistent match-3 setup, you can attempt to upgrade/delete the rest of your deck. Death relics on back columns don't work because you are less likely to match them. But you might as well use the deletion scroll. I know there will be a future interaction with the necronomicon and phylacterry, but for now even the skull amulets on column 2 rarely hit--you have to keep the unwanted symbols on Col 1 until after Col 2 is removed (hurting your deck's consistency), or they'll linger around until you can delete them with a scroll or pay the orc.
D. The Mind Aura is absolutely essential to having any sort of control with your deck/reels leading to the

Issue #1: Deck Thinning
Unlike Balatro, where cards have a rank and suit, and deletes are more rare and expensive, a slot machine roguelike needs a LOT of deck thinning before it feels anywhere near consistent due to the exponential rarity of additional matches. Currently, deletes are somewhat rare and expensive, and scroll-based removal requires you to draw that unwanted rune, which is again quite difficult due to only seeing 1/6th of your column pool each spin. I get that it's hard to balance between making things too cheap and too consistent, but due to the nature of relying on higher-tier matches, all decks need to follow the same strategy for consistency of lower-tier match first.
(in Balatro, you can upgrade hand types, but there's not an equivalent in this game, you just kind of hope you get a 3/4/5-match).

Issue #2:
Elements definitely have higher and lower tiers in terms of relic synergy, but this also means you have to commit fairly early to an element and hope you can find synergistic relics, and going the route of a lower-tier element just feels bad as you struggle with a lower power level and more limited resources.

For example, you're given a nice elemental-focus relic in shop 1, even if you pick it up, there's still like a 60% chance that you don't have that element in column 1 at all on first spin. Also, if we could have a chance to use scrolls after the final cast of a round with the resulting symbols, it would be much easier to use the scrolls to target our premium elemental symbols, as the process of waiting for the right time to use a deck-shaping scroll is half the battle. In Balatro, if you start off going for spades, you could still rely on High Card, or Two Pair, etc. The lack of pathways to pivot in this game emphasizes the snowball vs strategy feeling.

Looping back on element tier list, Light is S-tier because you can get money with collection box, it's high base dmg value, and mostly, it has a retrigger potential with its rare relic.

Issue #3: C.R.E.A.M.
In a game where synergies are so important, quickly amassing $$ is a go-to strategy. First off, there are relics that highly synergize with current money, but you also need money for a lot of the aforementioned deck thinning, relic filtering, and rune upgrades/amulet scrolls. And the game definitely has a snowbally, win-more flow and feel if you're able to beat enemies faster, you get more cash, and can see more options.

Strategy overview:
Deck Thinning: Very expensive (plus opportunity cost of shop options) at the Orc. This causes a mad rush for a Mind Aura relic in Column 1 as a first priority, as that will generate free scrolls that can help you effectively sculpt your deck. It's simply impossible to sculpt without this flow of free scrolls, (yes, I even had a money-Maximized build).
Going down to 2 elements on the first 3 reels costs 4 elements * 3 symbols * 3 cols = 36 removals! Maybe the number of elements should be lower?

Fast Econ and Fast Damage are the best early relics (+300 dmg -4 holds or +50dmg/Meditation, or +1 coin/meditation) are some of the best early relics, as with Plasma Deck strategy, high chips can keep you alive for a bit until you get your Mult and xMult online. Many xMult requires matching 4 and 5 of a kind consistently or require lots Growing (oh yeah the Tidy Tie is absolute garbage). And the insane econ growth with an extra 7-8 coins each round by keeping meditations high makes the bounty hunter relic look pathetic (I did have a run where I picked up both, and managed to build a deck, but it was also only due to having Axes Akimbo early.

The Pocket Forge item seems fun at first, but you find yourself in the situation where you want to thin your deck to get consistent fire activations (haste boots are a must), but you also have to time your forge attempts to Minibosses so that your meditations are restored. A fun game-within-a-game factor, but again loops back to inconsistency, let alone taking up a slot of its own without adding to damage calculations.

Maybe amulets that have a probability of morphing adjacent runes, or have an embedded skip interaction, or +1 match length will make things more interactive-feeling (or maybe they'll just dilute the pool of good scrolls even more).

[1] ref. Wizard of Odds analysis of VP (SD 4.5) : https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/appendix/3/ and a simple 3-reel slot (SD 9): https://wizardofodds.com/games/slots/appendix/6/

I read everything, i'm passing this feedback to our Team, thanks so much for taking the time to go indepth, these are great thought nutrients

[RepOne]

Originally posted by zBIR0:

The Pocket Forge item seems fun at first, but you find yourself in the situation where you want to thin your deck to get consistent fire activations (haste boots are a must), but you also have to time your forge attempts to Minibosses so that your meditations are restored. A fun game-within-a-game factor, but again loops back to inconsistency, let alone taking up a slot of its own without adding to damage calculations.

Hey zBIRO!

I hope you'll see this message.
Loved your post, and saw your post history on other games. I've sent you a friend invite. Please accept, I have something to show you.

Regards,

Quentin -RepOne- De Beukelaer