Consistent connection drops when playing with friend in PvE

[Malidictus]

I have a particular connection problem when playing with a friend of mine. Specifically, when we play "vs. AI" with "Matchmaking off." This is in part based on geographical location - I live in Eastern Europe, he in Australia so our connection isn't great. However, it works perfectly fine MOST of the time... up until the game starts constantly dropping me from the match with the following message:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2783927167

We believe this happens when the game selects him as "host," meaning I lose connection and get kicked from the lobby. Never him. We've found something of a workaround to this. If I start a game, pick a character and invite him in the middle of the loading screen, the game seems to pick me as "host." We have no issues or disconnects in that situation. I think he's gotten dropped from my game twice, and was subsequently able to rejoin.

If we start a game from the lobby normally instead (the way it's intended to work), we have a high likelihood of getting persistent disconnects - dropping me out of the game. Once that happens, reinviting me rarely helps. I can usually spend 30-60 seconds in the game before I'm kicked, over and over again.

It's not a break in network connection for either of us that's causing this. We chat on voice (old private TeamSpeak server), and that connection neither drops out nor hitches. We've both tested our connections via SpeedTest, they're both solid. I understand that the connection requirements for voice chat and text chat are quite a bit less stringent than gaming, but this seems to be something specific to For Honour.

We've played games before. We used to play quite a bit of Payday and Vermintide. We had ping delay, we had some desync - we had issues. Never complete dropouts like that, though. And it only happens in bot matches. If there are other pubbies in the game (either matchmaking PvE or PvE), no connection drops occur. It's only when it's just the two of us, and only if I don't invite my friend into an active game.

Is there something I can do with network settings on my end to extend this disconnection timeout? We pretty much just play by ourselves with no other players anyway.

[76561199207007716]

Hey there Malidictus, thank you for taking the time to get in touch and share this report. I am sorry to hear that you and your friend have been experiencing disconnection problems while playing against AI. I understand that you both live in different places and it does sound like that is the main factor, I will gladly check into it with my team.

I understand that you and your friend have already gone through some connectivity troubleshooting related steps and that the issue seems to be specific to For Honor, but before I report this further to our teams, I would like to ensure that it's something for us to look into from our end. Therefore can you and your friend please ensure you have gone through every step in this {LINK REMOVED}connectivity troubleshooting article? These steps can help rule out many of the common causes for connectivity-related issues.

Once you and your friend have completed those steps, and if you continue to experience disconnections against AI, please let me know and I will gladly take a closer look into it.

-Ubisoft Support

[Malidictus]

Understood. I've contacted my friend and here's what I can report:

• Check server status: Obviously, the servers were up when we've played.
  
• Reset network hardware: Both of us reset network hardware on a regular basis.
  
• Update Windows: Both of us are up-to-date, as we have autoupdates enabled and running regularly.
  
• Check software conflicts: Checked, no conflicts that we can find. Neither of use use aggressive anti-virus, simply Windows 10 Defender.
  
• Perform a Trace Route / Perform a Ping Test: I performed both simultaneously using WinMTR. It's an old piece of software but it works just fine. Route seems to go from my provider's peering network in Eastern Europe, through a Hurricane Electric Internet Services Backbone directly to Australian local network provider peering network. Not all hops will respond to pings, which is usually the case. The final hop - my friend's PC - however will respond to pings with 0% packet loss and a ping of ~350ms average. That's at time of posting, with a test time of ~15 minutes, one ping per second.

Just for the sake of being thorough - this disconnection issue is inconsistent and one-sided. Sometimes we can play normally with no interruprions. Sometimes it'll drop me repeatedly within 30 seconds of the game starting or me rejoining. Almost never will it drop my friend. My research suggests that For Honour has moved to remote hosting (so no longer locally hosted). I can't tell what hosting location the game chooses. Most of the time it seems to be somewhere in-between. Bot matches won't show ping. However, the PvP matches we've played will, and both of us seem to show with ~150/200ms of ping.

My blind guess is that For Honour will pick some kind of in-between dedicated server to which I have bad connection but my friend has good connection - hence why I get dropped and he doesn't. If I start a game by myself, For Honour will pick a dedicated server closer to me, which is why I have a good connection and don't drop out. For whatever reason, my friend almost never drops out. So far, he's only disconnected twice total. I've disconnected probably a hundred times, usually in batches of 5-10 times per game as I keep rejoining. I am, however, speculating here.

I don't know if this is useful information, but we followed the troubleshooting steps as close as we could.

[Ubi-Borealis]

Thanks for providing a detailed follow-up of the troubleshooting steps you and your friend tried, Malidictus! It's helpful as we continue to look into what could be causing your connectivity issues.

As mentioned already by both yourself and Ubi-Gizmo, it could potentially be the distance between the two of you causing these issues. As it hasn't been explicitly mentioned already in this thread, can you let us know what your respective NAT types are? This support article can show you how to find this information.[www.ubisoft.com]

If you or your friend has a Moderate or Strict NAT type, this could also be causing connectivity issues in online games, especially when hosting and joining a game. If you can provide us with that information, it will help us to look into this issue further.

Thanks,

- Ubisoft Support

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by UbiBorealis:

As mentioned already by both yourself and Ubi-Gizmo, it could potentially be the distance between the two of you causing these issues. As it hasn't been explicitly mentioned already in this thread, can you let us know what your respective NAT types are? This support article can show you how to find this information.[www.ubisoft.com]

I can confirm that my NAT is consistently green. My friend's NAT has been green whenever the subject has come up. Crucially, it has been green in instances when we have connection dropping issues. We both experienced red NAT for a time, but that was during the several days of service outages across all UbiSoft services. We've not had red or yellow NAT since.

I'll make a note to keep track of this moving forward when we play more matches.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Try checking this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2733905020

[76561199207007716]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

I can confirm that my NAT is consistently green. My friend's NAT has been green whenever the subject has come up. Crucially, it has been green in instances when we have connection dropping issues. We both experienced red NAT for a time, but that was during the several days of service outages across all UbiSoft services. We've not had red or yellow NAT since.

I'll make a note to keep track of this moving forward when we play more matches.

Hey again Malidictus, thank you for taking the time to do this, please keep us updated on your findings. As kindly mentioned by my colleague it is essential that we ensure both of your NAT types are set to open.

Brandarr Gunnarson - Thank you for taking the time to help out here and for sharing that guide you created. I appreciate it!

-Ubisoft Support

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Originally posted by Ubi-Gizmo:

Brandarr Gunnarson - Thank you for taking the time to help out here and for sharing that guide you created. I appreciate it!

-Ubisoft Support

You're very welcome! I experienced similar issues with connections, even though my NAT was almost always green. I hope to save others that trouble!

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Brandarr Gunnarson:

Try checking this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2733905020

I checked this. As per the guide's instructions, my own ISP is not using Carrier Grade NAT. I get only a single hop between my public IP and my local device. I should also note that my IP address is static. My ISP always issues me the same IP any time my local router requests one (loss of power, loss of connection, etc.).

I'll coordinate this test with my international friend and see what happens there. I don't have exact information on this yet. We've exchanged IP addresses a few times in the past for unrelated reasons, however, so I know that his IP is dynamic, though I don't know exactly what causes it to change. My guess is his ISP assigns a random IP any time his local router system calls for one. I don't know if this is relevant, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

I should also note that our "kludge solution" seems to be working so far. Any time we go back to menu for any reason, we break up the Group. I start a no-matchmaking bot match and invite him during map load. This seems to produce effectively no disconnects whatsoever. We just need to remember to do that, else we run a high risk of repeated disconnects - usually leading to an abandoned game and the aforementioned kludge. Luckily, no-matchmaking bot matches have no leaver penalty, so that's not as much of an issue - more irritating and inconvenient than gamebreaking.

[76561199207007716]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by Brandarr Gunnarson:

Try checking this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2733905020

I checked this. As per the guide's instructions, my own ISP is not using Carrier Grade NAT. I get only a single hop between my public IP and my local device. I should also note that my IP address is static. My ISP always issues me the same IP any time my local router requests one (loss of power, loss of connection, etc.).

I'll coordinate this test with my international friend and see what happens there. I don't have exact information on this yet. We've exchanged IP addresses a few times in the past for unrelated reasons, however, so I know that his IP is dynamic, though I don't know exactly what causes it to change. My guess is his ISP assigns a random IP any time his local router system calls for one. I don't know if this is relevant, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

I should also note that our "kludge solution" seems to be working so far. Any time we go back to menu for any reason, we break up the Group. I start a no-matchmaking bot match and invite him during map load. This seems to produce effectively no disconnects whatsoever. We just need to remember to do that, else we run a high risk of repeated disconnects - usually leading to an abandoned game and the aforementioned kludge. Luckily, no-matchmaking bot matches have no leaver penalty, so that's not as much of an issue - more irritating and inconvenient than gamebreaking.

Hey again Malidictus, I understand. Thanks again for taking the time to test this and share your findings. It's good to hear that you're not completely stuck and you have a workaround in the meantime.

-Ubisoft Support

[Malidictus]

OK, got in touch with my friend, and I have a bit of additional information, as requested. My friend ran the test in the Carrier Grade NAT guide: "single line returned via tracert". So it seems like he is also not affected by this issue, at least to the extent we can deduce with the tools we have available to us.

I also got an explicit confirmation on his NAT. He has kept an eye on it, and it has been green for ever since the Ubisoft Connect issues were resolved a few weeks ago (I don't remember when that was). Nat has been green across the board since.

An additional piece of information I thought to list just now is that I own For Honour on Steam, but my friend owns For Honour on Ubisoft Connect only - no Steam version. Only thought to mention it now since team invites have to go through Ubisoft Connect anyway, but it may be relevant so I'm mentioning it now.

I hope this isn't related to whatever issue is keeping the For Honour process from closing properly, as I mentioned in the other thread. It seems unlikely, but that IS the major difference between the two of us. If I consistently get kicked and he doesn't...

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Well, at least you can rule out CGN!

It may have something to do with the difference in region, though. Do you note any packet loss or high latency symbols during matches, especially before a drop?

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Brandarr Gunnarson:

It may have something to do with the difference in region, though. Do you note any packet loss or high latency symbols during matches, especially before a drop?

Packet loss, no. There's a constant warning about high latency for me, which is natural - we're playing between Europe and Australia :) It's to be expected. I do, however, have an anecdote that may be useful.

As I said, my friend ALMOST never drops when we do the "start a game then invite him" trick, but he has dropped out twice in some 100 hours. Both times when I reinvited him, both of us experienced really odd behaviour. I'm always on voice with him, so I get a first-hand account of what's going on from his side.

In both cases when I reinvite him, his "Loading Map" process takes an inordinately long time - upwards of 5 minutes. He usually loads a LOT faster than that, so it's not the actual loading process that's taking time. While this is happening, I get both a "high latency" warning AND a "high packet loss" warning. This massive amount of packet loss is reflected in my first-hand experience. I start rubberbanding, my attacks come out a good second after I input them, the AI will idle then execute multiple attacks at once - typical packet loss environment.

Eventually, my friend will connect and pop into the game. As soon as he does, my packet loss goes away entirely and connection returns to normal. I still have a high latency indicator (which I don't think we can ever play without), but combat works as intended and I notice no more packet loss. This has happened twice so far, and both times we've seen this behaviour. This has not happened a single time when I've been dropped out and rejoined him.

We originally speculated that this was some kind of peer-to-peer issue, as I remember talk of For Honour using that network model. However, I've read up on this and it seems like the game switched to dedicated server quite a while ago. I've also noticed that I always have ~150 ping listed in game modes that show that, so I'm clearly not "the host" in the peer-to-peer sense. I don't, however, have any other way to explain why my connection goes to hell while my friend is connecting to a dedicated server...

*edit*
OK, I did a test with my friend just now. I suspected that launching the game through Steam might be causing the disconnects, somehow. I launched the game through Ubisoft Connect just now, played a game with my friend... and was disconnected within 10 seconds of the match starting. I think that's definitive - whatever the issue is, it's not related to Steam.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

I have noted that when I play against friends via a "Custom Match", my latency is very high, whereas their latency is very low. I believe this is due to the system selecting which region to "play in", so to speak.

This happens to me even when I am the person to initiate the invite and act as "Group Leader".

When playing in public matches, it always selects the region that I am connected to and my latency is the same as when I play solo.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if you (either alone or both) tried using a VPN to connect to a region halfway between your locales.

I suspect that the extreme distance between you may be the cause of your issues. Cutting it in half for both of you may at least mitigate it.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Brandarr Gunnarson:

I have noted that when I play against friends via a "Custom Match", my latency is very high, whereas their latency is very low. I believe this is due to the system selecting which region to "play in", so to speak.

That's my guess, as well. "Group leader" doesn't seem to matter - the game will pick a dedicated server based on its ping estimations, even if it's not near the group leader. This is why I believe that my trick of starting a Bot Match solo THEN inviting my friend while the zone loads works so consistently. It forces the game to pick a dedicated server near me. Both of us seem to have good connection to servers "near" Eastern Europe - "good" here meaning neither of us gets dropped.

If we start a match with both of us on the team, it seems to pick a dedicated server near Australia somewhere. He seems to have good connection to it, but I constantly get dropped. I have no way to know exactly where those servers are (without digging through active process connection settings, which I don't feel like doing), but this is my best guess that's consistent with what we see. Said guess is that there's some issue with the "near Australia" dedicated servers which time out non-local users which isn't present in the "near Europe" ones.

Originally posted by Brandarr Gunnarson:

I suspect that the extreme distance between you may be the cause of your issues. Cutting it in half for both of you may at least mitigate it.

Oh, of course. We knew that going in, as it's always an issue just due to pure distance (and what I'm told is awful Australian internet). The reason I posted this is that the issue is peculiarly one-sided. I'm always the one to get dropped, but only when the game picks a dedicated server between us. When I force the dedicated server through shenanigans, everything works fine. This tells me there's an issue more specific than just sheer physical distance. If we can manipulate the game to produce better (non-dropping) connection, there may be a broader, more official solution.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

There may still be some cross-border NAT shenanigans going on. Most public IP addresses are assigned within a region (that may be a country).

So, even if you aren't suffering from CGN, per se, you may be affected by something like it at the jurisdictional level, even if you are seeing a green NAT.

That's my best guess!