Is shinobi really that cancerous?

[🌠Deusgo]

I mean they can be annoying, but guard breaking a read kick, dodgeing, or just dealing more damage with your chains really don’t seem that bad to me. I find kyoshins and zanhus much harder to face. Played against a lot of high reps ones

[HELLCAT]

Shinobi is broken, the double dodge is literally can shutdown tiandi and shaolin mix up

[🌠Deusgo]

Originally posted by HELLCAT:

Shinobi is broken, the double dodge is literally can shutdown tiandi and shaolin mix up

Counter argument:Gaurd break

[HELLCAT]

Originally posted by Deusgo:

Originally posted by HELLCAT:

Shinobi is broken, the double dodge is literally can shutdown tiandi and shaolin mix up

Counter argument:Gaurd break

Counter argument: You can't gb while in a qi stance,

[🌠Deusgo]

Originally posted by HELLCAT:

Originally posted by Deusgo:

Counter argument:Gaurd break

Counter argument: You can't gb while in a qi stance,

Don’t they have an undodgelabe when in that stance? (Not played shoalin)

[MrPibbs]

Originally posted by Deusgo:

Originally posted by HELLCAT:

Counter argument: You can't gb while in a qi stance,

Don’t they have an undodgelabe when in that stance? (Not played shoalin)

Yes. The problem is he can dodge trying to dodge the bash, then realize shaolin threw the undodgeable, and deflect the undodgeable with his double dodge. He can invalidate several bash/blue heavy mixups because of this, such as Shaolin, Kyoshin, and BP.

There are several other aspects that go into him being seen as really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying, such as his tier 2 being a 60-100 damage GB stuff read, his absolutey incredible ganks, and him by design being a slippery bastard that gets to chose his fights.

[🌠Deusgo]

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

Originally posted by Deusgo:

Don’t they have an undodgelabe when in that stance? (Not played shoalin)

Yes. The problem is he can dodge trying to dodge the bash, then realize shaolin threw the undodgeable, and deflect the undodgeable with his double dodge. He can invalidate several bash/blue heavy mixups because of this, such as Shaolin, Kyoshin, and BP.

There are several other aspects that go into him being seen as really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying, such as his tier 2 being a 60-100 damage GB stuff read, his absolutey incredible ganks, and him by design being a slippery bastard that gets to chose his fights.

♥♥♥♥ your right. I’m fine with his ganking abilities and if you use projectiles you are a coward in my eyes, but they need to remove his double dodge ability to deflect, or just remove the double dodge

[Live, Laugh, Love]

There's a reason why people considered him one of if not the strongest character in the game for nearly 3 years now, his bash/undodgeable mixup hits way harder that most other characters, his pinning moves make him a monster at ganking, his double dodge and backflips make him near untouchable in teamfights (even with undodgeables involved, he is still fast enough to deflect them) and many of his feats make a good shinobi practically impossible to kill

[Jinskara]

Originally posted by Deusgo:

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

Yes. The problem is he can dodge trying to dodge the bash, then realize shaolin threw the undodgeable, and deflect the undodgeable with his double dodge. He can invalidate several bash/blue heavy mixups because of this, such as Shaolin, Kyoshin, and BP.

There are several other aspects that go into him being seen as really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying, such as his tier 2 being a 60-100 damage GB stuff read, his absolutey incredible ganks, and him by design being a slippery bastard that gets to chose his fights.

♥♥♥♥ your right. I’m fine with his ganking abilities and if you use projectiles you are a coward in my eyes, but they need to remove his double dodge ability to deflect, or just remove the double dodge

Nah, removing the double dodge all together would be overkill, but removing it's ability to deflect would make sense. The double dodge works as a sort of pseudo extended dodge, and no extended dodges in this game can be used to deflect. Well, unless you count Tiandi's extended dodge soft feint dodge light, because that does actually achieve the same thing through a superior block dodge, but that's technically not a deflect

I've mained Shinobi since his release, and him being slippery due to his double dodge has always been his main draw. Remove that and you've just got an incredibly squishy mix-up character with little anti-gank potential. But, making it so he can only get deflects with his first dodge would be a completely fair nerf. Even if you can't react fast enough to use the double dodge deflect as MrPibbs explained, if you use both dodges in the direction of an attack, you end up having a larger margin of error than the rest of the deflect characters because you're attempting the same deflect twice, making Shinobi deflects way easier to obtain by accident/panic dodging

[kismachaddis]

make double dodge kick start up gb vulnerable. Keep the rest of kit the same. Adds some counter play to him getting into his mix ups but doesnt affect the mixups once he's in it.

If you heavy, feint, gb. And shino dodges on indicator, the kick can not be GB'd. that should change maybe, is what I'm saying in the above.