Reactable and non reactable attacks

[🌠Deusgo]

Shaman, raider, peacekeeper soft feints are unreactable to most players, but not to those with high refresh rate monitors and good reactions. Some moves are completely unreactable though. Why not make these moves unreactable to everybody? I imagine there are very strong opinions on both end, but that’s just my way of thinking

[MrPibbs]

Shaman Raider and PK soft feints are considered unreactable to everyone but the absolute best players in the game. I'm talking like less than 30 people here. And even to those absolute cracked monsters, it is not an easy reaction in an actual match. Reacting to something in training mode where the opponent only does a couple predetermined moves is completely different to an actual fight.

Things being reactable in a vacuum to the best players is not a problem. Hell, Hitokiri has neutral offense that's considered 100% reactable at the top level, yet she's still seen as a top 10 duel hero.

Ultimately however they have tried to steer moves into being either reactable or unreactable for the entire playerbase. It's why bashes were sped up to 433ms somewhat recently. In an even further (imo vastly overkill) example, it's why PK is having her top light soft feint sped up to 366ms.

[kismachaddis]

Postat inițial de MrPibbs:

Hell, Hitokiri has neutral offense that's considered 100% reactable at the top level,

Did you mean hitokiri? she has no neutral offence. Not to say her chain delayed heavies aren't weird. but thats not neutral offence.

[🚛 Akehiko ⬛️💀🟧]

Peri!

[MrPibbs]

Postat inițial de JamM:

Postat inițial de MrPibbs:

Hell, Hitokiri has neutral offense that's considered 100% reactable at the top level,

Did you mean hitokiri? she has no neutral offence. Not to say her chain delayed heavies aren't weird. but thats not neutral offence.

Charged heavies are considered neutral offense (an opener), because they're a safe way to get into your chain where other offensive options exist. At least, they are for Centurion.

Back before the Legion Kick bashes were sped up to 433ms (giving about 90% of the cast an effective opener), Centurion was considered to have some of the best neutral offense in the game since his charged heavies were considered unreactable, which lead to his chain jab mixup, which was also fully unreactable.

The issue comes in with Shugoki and Hitokiri having (apparently, I know I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ can't do it) reactable animations that make their charged heavy openers ineffective. Ironically enough, both are considered top 10 duelists despite this weakness.

[♠♣♦НиколаС♦♣♠]

Postat inițial de Deusgo:

Shaman, raider, peacekeeper soft feints are unreactable to most players, but not to those with high refresh rate monitors and good reactions. Some moves are completely unreactable though. Why not make these moves unreactable to everybody? I imagine there are very strong opinions on both end, but that’s just my way of thinking

ты к этому прибавь еще пинг, для некоторых эти удары вообще не видны даже.

[🌠Deusgo]

Postat inițial de MrPibbs:

Shaman Raider and PK soft feints are considered unreactable to everyone but the absolute best players in the game. I'm talking like less than 30 people here. And even to those absolute cracked monsters, it is not an easy reaction in an actual match. Reacting to something in training mode where the opponent only does a couple predetermined moves is completely different to an actual fight.

Things being reactable in a vacuum to the best players is not a problem. Hell, Hitokiri has neutral offense that's considered 100% reactable at the top level, yet she's still seen as a top 10 duel hero.

Ultimately however they have tried to steer moves into being either reactable or unreactable for the entire playerbase. It's why bashes were sped up to 433ms somewhat recently. In an even further (imo vastly overkill) example, it's why PK is having her top light soft feint sped up to 366ms.

It’s just that I’ve ran into maybe three people in last two days who are consistently parrying every damn soft feint on pk and shaman. I honestly thought they might have been cheating

[kismachaddis]

Postat inițial de MrPibbs:

Postat inițial de JamM:

Did you mean hitokiri? she has no neutral offence. Not to say her chain delayed heavies aren't weird. but thats not neutral offence.

Charged heavies are considered neutral offense (an opener), because they're a safe way to get into your chain where other offensive options exist. At least, they are for Centurion.

Back before the Legion Kick bashes were sped up to 433ms (giving about 90% of the cast an effective opener), Centurion was considered to have some of the best neutral offense in the game since his charged heavies were considered unreactable, which lead to his chain jab mixup, which was also fully unreactable.

The issue comes in with Shugoki and Hitokiri having (apparently, I know I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ can't do it) reactable animations that make their charged heavy openers ineffective. Ironically enough, both are considered top 10 duelists despite this weakness.

Hiti has no hyper armour for 800ms on the opening heavies.. although it leads into a chain and 3 way mixup.. this isn't neutral offence. Whether people would say hiti's heavies are neutral offence or cent's heavies are neutral offence, they are not.

[MrPibbs]

Postat inițial de Deusgo:

Postat inițial de MrPibbs:

Shaman Raider and PK soft feints are considered unreactable to everyone but the absolute best players in the game. I'm talking like less than 30 people here. And even to those absolute cracked monsters, it is not an easy reaction in an actual match. Reacting to something in training mode where the opponent only does a couple predetermined moves is completely different to an actual fight.

Things being reactable in a vacuum to the best players is not a problem. Hell, Hitokiri has neutral offense that's considered 100% reactable at the top level, yet she's still seen as a top 10 duel hero.

Ultimately however they have tried to steer moves into being either reactable or unreactable for the entire playerbase. It's why bashes were sped up to 433ms somewhat recently. In an even further (imo vastly overkill) example, it's why PK is having her top light soft feint sped up to 366ms.

It’s just that I’ve ran into maybe three people in last two days who are consistently parrying every damn soft feint on pk and shaman. I honestly thought they might have been cheating

You could have been predictable, they could have been lucky, they could have been gods, or they could have been cheating. Could be any of these things. Them actually being able to react consistently is the least likely.

Postat inițial de JamM:

Postat inițial de MrPibbs:

Charged heavies are considered neutral offense (an opener), because they're a safe way to get into your chain where other offensive options exist. At least, they are for Centurion.

Back before the Legion Kick bashes were sped up to 433ms (giving about 90% of the cast an effective opener), Centurion was considered to have some of the best neutral offense in the game since his charged heavies were considered unreactable, which lead to his chain jab mixup, which was also fully unreactable.

The issue comes in with Shugoki and Hitokiri having (apparently, I know I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ can't do it) reactable animations that make their charged heavy openers ineffective. Ironically enough, both are considered top 10 duelists despite this weakness.

Hiti has no hyper armour for 800ms on the opening heavies.. although it leads into a chain and 3 way mixup.. this isn't neutral offence. Whether people would say hiti's heavies are neutral offence or cent's heavies are neutral offence, they are not.

... Hito opener heavies are 700ms and hyperarmored. So... no, her HA doesn't activate at 800ms. Unless its a fully charged heavy, in which case it's 800ms. Don't even know why her HA is relevant. Being able to safety get into chain offense is considered a viable opener, and Cent's variable timed heavies do this. Hito and Shugo are supposed to, but don't at the top level.